Author Topic: Rolemaster SRD  (Read 1344 times)

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Offline Peter R

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2016, 03:29:08 AM »
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and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.
This is not true. You can write and sell for hard cash supplements for OGL games. Your writer then earns money and the original game producer get the free advertising of their OGL game system.
The company providing the OGL is the artist, not those taking advantage of it.  You're telling them to give product away for exposure.
This almost always sounds FAR more attractive to those who aren't trying to make money at what they do.

Quote
Kwickam has released his Aiorskoru world as OGL and I have repurposed the blog posts I wrote to support and sold them on RPGnow, I have had 50+ downloads of it so far. That is just a single homebrew world and a few reproductions of free blog posts but it is proof of concept.
Is he selling his world for a profit and has he seen those profits increase as a result of your making money on his OGL?  THAT would be proof of concept, not how much YOU have sold.

Yes, he is selling his world. The whole idea of profit is fuzzy when it comes to micro publishers. If you do not charge for your time and do not pay for any artists and do everything yourself and drivethrough handle all the distribution then if you make a single penny/cent you are technically in profit.

I wrote my blog posts because I blog, the posts were nearly a year old they had served the purpose I had when I wrote them. I put them on rpgnow as an act to help promote his world at Kwickhams request.

My posts will help Kwickham achieve more sales. Probably not many and possibly not any but the operative word is 'help'.

My blog I hope will help RMU achieve more sales when it is released. Probably not many and possibly not any but the operative word is 'help'.
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Offline Warl

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2016, 10:07:14 AM »
your writing a "blog" that you are providing for free is a bit different than people writing and selling Product for an OGL game. Many will often partake of a service or product offered for free over a Product they must spend even a $1 on.

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Offline Arioch

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2016, 11:42:36 AM »
afteral, WOTC hasn't given an OGL for 4th or 5th edition.

Also, oddly enough, neither has pathfinder.

WotC actually have given an OGL for 5th edition (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/systems-reference-document-srd) and they gave a GSL (which kinda worked like OGL, but with more restrictions on what could be reproduced) for 4e (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome).

As for Pathfinder, they basically had to release it under OGL, since they used the OGL to publish it in the first place. You can find PF OGL here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/
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Offline GMLovlie

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2017, 02:02:51 AM »
And another "behemoth" of the gaming industry like WotC does this to allow gamers and players promote itself.

Direct link to DrivethruRPG: http://support.drivethrurpg.com/hc/en-us/articles/208596786-Monte-Cook-Cypher-System-Creator
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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2017, 03:53:13 AM »
I think you've linked to the wrong thing; that's Monte Cook Games not WotC. I think you meant the DM's Guild.

This is the closest I can find to a similar explanation: http://www.dmsguild.com/whatisdmsguild.php
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Offline GMLovlie

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2017, 04:14:40 AM »
No, I linked correctly. As it says: "like WotC". It doesn't just say "WotC" ... WotC is already stated to have an OGL and a GSL, no need for me to reiterate and repeat that. Hence I post to something similar, but from a much smaller company.

I'm just saying other companies are doing this too, not just big, great WotC-like companies. Also smaller companies license their stuff to the fans to gain traction and publicity. Something that ICE should consider too I think. At least for adventures, but also other stuff. The financial benefits may not be great, but as long as they do something like MCG, ICE could get royalties for everything published by fans using one of their systems, while keeping their game lines and settings limited under restrictions of approval and their current publishing regime.

I don't see ICE opening their settings and core lines for anything but reference, of course not, but I could see them opening up for others to publish their own settings, adventures, and supplements, using ICE systems, and referring to ICE products (no reproduction of course), without having to go through the entire ICE apparatus.
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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2017, 04:56:34 AM »
Ah, right, I misunderstood. If you've noticed, there's another company, Aegis Studios, a much smaller one which has done something similar with one of their settings.
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Offline GMLovlie

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2017, 05:09:50 AM »
I'll have to check those out. Thanks!

I have some ideas for a HARP SF campaign setting, and an adventure or two, perhaps even some supplements specific to that setting. It's all still very much on the sketch-board - which it usually is with people whose job is something else than game design and writing. This means the schedule is slow, but it would be nice to not have it be even slower. Anyways, it's always possible to publish something system-agnostic and only recommend a game system, without having to get a license or anything, I guess...
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Offline Nightblade42

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2017, 11:14:29 PM »
Quote
and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.

Hmmm, no, as I see it, it's not really the same.
A more fitting analogy would be the Musician letting a tribute band perform and sell their own CDs (do they even sell CDs anymore? :o), provided they have a sign that says "Official XXX Tribute Band" when they play or put a sticker with the same phrase on their CDs.

The difference being the use of Publishing Rights Companies like ASCAP & SOCAN where Royalties are paid to the IP Owners of musical works no matter who performs them (radio, TV, internet broadcasts of songs, covers of the songs by other artists).  This is not the case with OGL.  There is no Publishing Rights Societies collecting & distributing Royalties for the IP Owners of the game systems that OGL content is based upon.

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Offline Peter R

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2017, 02:54:21 PM »
Quote
and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.

Hmmm, no, as I see it, it's not really the same.
A more fitting analogy would be the Musician letting a tribute band perform and sell their own CDs (do they even sell CDs anymore? :o), provided they have a sign that says "Official XXX Tribute Band" when they play or put a sticker with the same phrase on their CDs.

The difference being the use of Publishing Rights Companies like ASCAP & SOCAN where Royalties are paid to the IP Owners of musical works no matter who performs them (radio, TV, internet broadcasts of songs, covers of the songs by other artists).  This is not the case with OGL.  There is no Publishing Rights Societies collecting & distributing Royalties for the IP Owners of the game systems that OGL content is based upon.

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Unless you work through a community content program, like the ones operated by OneBookShelf. In that situation royalties are collected at point of sale.
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Offline ImaginosMusic

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2018, 10:06:13 PM »
I have seen stated on this thread several times that allowing an OGL would mean free advertising. Who benefits more from this advertising, The established brand, or the independents who wish to be associated with that brand?

For example, Myself and my musician friends decide we want to do a KISS tribute show. We rent the auditorium at the local High School and sell 500 tickets at $20 a head. We dress up like KISS, play the show and have a jolly time. My friends and I clear a cool $6000 after expenses. We did a good job using the established brand to our own benefit. KISS receives nothing. They don't even know it took place. How Does this benefit KISS?

Offline Peter R

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 06:24:43 AM »
I have seen stated on this thread several times that allowing an OGL would mean free advertising. Who benefits more from this advertising, The established brand, or the independents who wish to be associated with that brand?

For example, Myself and my musician friends decide we want to do a KISS tribute show. We rent the auditorium at the local High School and sell 500 tickets at $20 a head. We dress up like KISS, play the show and have a jolly time. My friends and I clear a cool $6000 after expenses. We did a good job using the established brand to our own benefit. KISS receives nothing. They don't even know it took place. How Does this benefit KISS?

That is a slight misrepresentation of what an SRD allows.

The SRD tightly controls what can and cannot be used. The intention is to drive sales of the core rule books so for example you can say that a spell caster has a particular spell but you cannot give the details of the spell. The user must own the players handbook or in our case Spell Law to be able to use the spell. The SRD would open up a variety of monsters, but not all, but when used you can give details like the number of hit points and weapons but for the monster description you need to refer to the monster manual or creatures & treasures.

With your band it would be more akin to you being allowed to sing the Kiss songs but only to a backing track CD bought directly from Kiss. Each backing track would contain a selection of songs so you could not perform all of their hits in a single show but would have to purchase a range of backing track CD over time if you wanted to vary your show. In this way you get to be a Kiss tribute and Kiss get control of the quality of the performance and are rewarded. You still get to dress up like Kiss and keep the ticket price but everyone wins.
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Offline ImaginosMusic

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2018, 03:36:03 PM »
I have seen stated on this thread several times that allowing an OGL would mean free advertising. Who benefits more from this advertising, The established brand, or the independents who wish to be associated with that brand?

For example, Myself and my musician friends decide we want to do a KISS tribute show. We rent the auditorium at the local High School and sell 500 tickets at $20 a head. We dress up like KISS, play the show and have a jolly time. My friends and I clear a cool $6000 after expenses. We did a good job using the established brand to our own benefit. KISS receives nothing. They don't even know it took place. How Does this benefit KISS?

That is a slight misrepresentation of what an SRD allows.

The SRD tightly controls what can and cannot be used. The intention is to drive sales of the core rule books so for example you can say that a spell caster has a particular spell but you cannot give the details of the spell. The user must own the players handbook or in our case Spell Law to be able to use the spell. The SRD would open up a variety of monsters, but not all, but when used you can give details like the number of hit points and weapons but for the monster description you need to refer to the monster manual or creatures & treasures.

With your band it would be more akin to you being allowed to sing the Kiss songs but only to a backing track CD bought directly from Kiss. Each backing track would contain a selection of songs so you could not perform all of their hits in a single show but would have to purchase a range of backing track CD over time if you wanted to vary your show. In this way you get to be a Kiss tribute and Kiss get control of the quality of the performance and are rewarded. You still get to dress up like Kiss and keep the ticket price but everyone wins.

The argument I made was not intended to be a demonstration of how an SRD would operate. I am fully aware of the purpose and usage of these documents. The argument is meant to demonstrate branding and the use of an established brand by a third party to validate their product. I do not believe that such usage benefits the established brand nearly as much as it does the third party.



Offline Peter R

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2018, 04:09:39 PM »

The argument I made was not intended to be a demonstration of how an SRD would operate. I am fully aware of the purpose and usage of these documents. The argument is meant to demonstrate branding and the use of an established brand by a third party to validate their product. I do not believe that such usage benefits the established brand nearly as much as it does the third party.

You are basically right. When I sell a supplement for Mongoose Traveler I get 50% of the face value. Mongoose gets 20% and OBS takes 30%. So financially the benefit is more in my favour than Mongooses. On the otherhand Mongoose gets 20% of many hundreds of sales for which they have had to invest no time, effort or resources.

Branding is an asset and it is up to each and every business to decide how to apply its assets to best effect.

You can licence your brand to other publishers for an upfront fee for example but the difficulty is that if your brand has little value no one would want to buy it.

A completely free OGL would create lots of content and brand awareness but would profit ICE very little. An SRD coupled with a community content system puts the control in ICE's hands and adds an income stream.

I believe that there will one day be a Rolemaster SRD. ICE is slowly coming around to 21st century thinking, the attempt to crowd source an adventure path is evidence to that.

One of two things will happen either ICE will embrance community content or someone, probably a die hard RM2 or RMSS GM, will release a game that is 100% compatible with their favourite version of RM and they will release it for free. From that moment on the door is open and out of ICE's control.
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Offline ImaginosMusic

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2018, 08:07:46 PM »


You are basically right. When I sell a supplement for Mongoose Traveler I get 50% of the face value. Mongoose gets 20% and OBS takes 30%. So financially the benefit is more in my favour than Mongooses. On the otherhand Mongoose gets 20% of many hundreds of sales for which they have had to invest no time, effort or resources.
It seems to me the biggest winner in this mix is OBS. They provide the mechanism and enforce the rules and get a pretty fair portion of the take. Hopefully your sales will help to build your own brand, improving your sales. If they do, the 20% Mongoose association fee may be worth it.
Branding is an asset and it is up to each and every business to decide how to apply its assets to best effect.

You can licence your brand to other publishers for an upfront fee for example but the difficulty is that if your brand has little value no one would want to buy it.
As a former pro musician, I feel you are preaching to the choir on this one. My own brand may fill the coffee shop down the street, or, I can pay the licensing fee and easily fill more seats by calling it a tribute to The Doors/U2/The Who etc. Doing my own music had too much effort with too little return and I am honestly not interested in doing the tribute thing. So now I program computers and play games with my kids.
One of two things will happen either ICE will embrance community content or someone, probably a die hard RM2 or RMSS GM, will release a game that is 100% compatible with their favourite version of RM and they will release it for free. From that moment on the door is open and out of ICE's control.
Not sure who may be interested in this task. Seems a daunting endeavor if you ask me. The gaming environment these days reminds me of the wild west. There are simply way too many games and in my opinion, far too few of them seem worth playing. The thought of putting yet another set of core rules into the fray just doesn't appeal to me.

Offline Peter R

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2018, 07:42:37 AM »


You are basically right. When I sell a supplement for Mongoose Traveler I get 50% of the face value. Mongoose gets 20% and OBS takes 30%. So financially the benefit is more in my favour than Mongooses. On the otherhand Mongoose gets 20% of many hundreds of sales for which they have had to invest no time, effort or resources.
It seems to me the biggest winner in this mix is OBS. They provide the mechanism and enforce the rules and get a pretty fair portion of the take. Hopefully your sales will help to build your own brand, improving your sales. If they do, the 20% Mongoose association fee may be worth it.
Branding is an asset and it is up to each and every business to decide how to apply its assets to best effect.

You can licence your brand to other publishers for an upfront fee for example but the difficulty is that if your brand has little value no one would want to buy it.
As a former pro musician, I feel you are preaching to the choir on this one. My own brand may fill the coffee shop down the street, or, I can pay the licensing fee and easily fill more seats by calling it a tribute to The Doors/U2/The Who etc. Doing my own music had too much effort with too little return and I am honestly not interested in doing the tribute thing. So now I program computers and play games with my kids.
One of two things will happen either ICE will embrance community content or someone, probably a die hard RM2 or RMSS GM, will release a game that is 100% compatible with their favourite version of RM and they will release it for free. From that moment on the door is open and out of ICE's control.
Not sure who may be interested in this task. Seems a daunting endeavor if you ask me. The gaming environment these days reminds me of the wild west. There are simply way too many games and in my opinion, far too few of them seem worth playing. The thought of putting yet another set of core rules into the fray just doesn't appeal to me.
Writing a game is a pleasure or leisure activity for many people. You just need to look at how many free or pay what you want games there are.

The other aspect is that as soon as there is a free compatible system then the thousands of indie supplement writers and adventure writers can then target the system.

Regarding OBS they are also providing all the fulfilment, data storage, and payment handling. They are also not a charity. I think 30% is fair. Amazon take a much bigger share if you publish for kindle or POD.
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Offline Nightblade42

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2018, 08:00:17 PM »
Quote
and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.

Hmmm, no, as I see it, it's not really the same.
A more fitting analogy would be the Musician letting a tribute band perform and sell their own CDs (do they even sell CDs anymore? :o), provided they have a sign that says "Official XXX Tribute Band" when they play or put a sticker with the same phrase on their CDs.

The difference being the use of Publishing Rights Companies like ASCAP & SOCAN where Royalties are paid to the IP Owners of musical works no matter who performs them (radio, TV, internet broadcasts of songs, covers of the songs by other artists).  This is not the case with OGL.  There is no Publishing Rights Societies collecting & distributing Royalties for the IP Owners of the game systems that OGL content is based upon.

Nightblade ->--

Unless you work through a community content program, like the ones operated by OneBookShelf. In that situation royalties are collected at point of sale.

Yes, you are correct.

Nightblade ->--

 

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