Author Topic: A little confused over mandatory subskills.  (Read 1677 times)

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Offline Random

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A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« on: March 23, 2017, 05:41:21 AM »
Ok, so on page 35 it says
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When a character learns one of these skills, the character chooses one of the subskills to be the primary subskill. The primary subskill may be used without any subskill penalties; all other subskills must be used with the listed modifier.............This rule applies to the Animal Handling, Beastmastery, Foraging/Survival, Riding, and Signaling.


That's fairly clear.

But on Page 36 on the Master Skill List, Animal Handling, Foraging/Survival and Riding are marked with the little sword/cross icon thingy along with others and the foot note for that says
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A skill that may be learned multiple times for a different specialization each time it is learned.

Now Weapons, Spells Lore's and many others fall into this category as well.

As it stands Animal Handling, Foraging/Survival and Riding have 2 slightly different rules applied to them.
 

Offline trechriron

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 12:14:42 PM »
The way I read it is;

When you select a skill with a mandatory sub-skill, you choose one sub-skill. Any use of another sub-skill under the sub-skill outside the one you chose is at the penalty listed in the skill description (-20 seems to be common).

IF you want to, you can choose to buy the skill again, choosing another sub-skill. Now, TWO sub-skills are at no penalty, while the rest are.

There are also talents that let you overcome sub-skill penalties if you want all sub-skills you have to operate at the same ranks as your first sub-skill.

It's not two different rules. When you select a skill, you designate a primary. If you select the skill twice, you choose two primaries. The "non-primary penalty" applies to any sub-skill you have not chosen as primary (when you bought the skill).
Trentin C Bergeron (TreChriron)
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Offline Random

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 05:28:38 PM »
Fair enough, work on the assumption the 2 statements are not mutually exclusive.  I can sell that to my players thanks.

Offline trechriron

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 06:49:32 PM »
and to note: if you pick a skill with mandatory sub-skills twice, they would function essentially as two different skills. You would have to increase ranks separately; which is why the talents may be more cost effective in the long run... I could be wrong! Perhaps the intent was you could only buy a skill, select one sub-skill and then you would HAVE to select the talent to pick up new sub-skills...
Trentin C Bergeron (TreChriron)
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Offline dagorhir

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 08:04:49 PM »
... Perhaps the intent was you could only buy a skill, select one sub-skill and then you would HAVE to select the talent to pick up new sub-skills...

That is how I always understood it, and used it in my games.

Offline trechriron

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2017, 12:07:51 AM »

That is how I always understood it, and used it in my games.

I believe it would be a cheaper option in the long run!
Trentin C Bergeron (TreChriron)
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Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2017, 04:46:58 AM »
I consider this an accident of timing of when the books came out. For example, HARP SF mentions choosing between separate skills and mandatory subskills when doing a Science Fantasy crossover; however, HARP Fantasy automatically uses mandatory subskills. To confuse it even further, in HARP Fantasy it's just Navigation, whereas in HARP SF Navigation has a single subskill of Astrogation.
#LotorAllura2024

Offline dagorhir

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2017, 09:56:39 AM »
What is confusing is that note on the Master Skill List on page 36: "† = A skill that may be learned multiple times for a different specialization each time it is learned."

† marks both skills that are groups of skills, like Play Instrument and Weapons, and skills that have mandatory subskills, like Animal Handling, Beastmastery and Riding.

In my view that note only applies to groups of skills where each subskill must be learned separately.

Play Instrument must be developed for each instrument while Riding must only be developed once with the type of mount as a subskill as per the description of the skill.

That's how I've been using it and it works well.

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: A little confused over mandatory subskills.
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2017, 03:21:32 PM »
This is a result of the release timing.
"† " will be removed from Animal Handling, Foraging/Survival and Riding.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme