Author Topic: Don't be Epic  (Read 5091 times)

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Offline gandalf970

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Don't be Epic
« on: October 04, 2015, 10:45:29 AM »
Our long time campaign and group just finished.  We had played for many years and travelled all across the known world fighting evil.  My longest tenured member looked at me and said "Can the next campaign not be so Epic"?

I asked him for clarification and he said can't we just live in a town, go to dungeons and have fun.  It shocked me a bit, as I hadn't considered this.  All of our campaigns over the last 30 years have been world changers, taking down high priests and slaying dragons (well only one in 30 years). 

I ask this of the community, could you give me a low fantasy look at how you set up your Rolemaster campaign?  Do you take out the magic, do you have more NPC's with no skills?  No organizations or groups.  What does this look like and still be entertaining for the party.

I have some ideas of my own, but wanted feedback from the experts who GM the greatest game ever made.

Offline Peter R

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2015, 11:27:56 AM »
We were in pretty much the same position. Last year we saved shadow world from destruction at the end of a seven year campaign. This time we are having a non epic, low adventure game.

There is no need to tone down any of the magic or threats. The party were supposed to be mapping a cave complex in their first adventure but discovered a dwarves village had been taken hostage by dark elves and they freed them from slavery.

There is another party in the same area who basically competing with the PCs for any glory and the status of 'local heroes'.

There is a story developing but the party are not really aware of it yet.
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Offline gandalf970

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2015, 02:00:45 PM »
Nice touch Peter, I like where this is going.

Offline Peter R

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2015, 03:10:56 PM »
I cannot give too much away as I suspect that two of my players read this forum. (Actually I know that two of my pbp players read these forums and I suspect that two of my f2f players may read them.)

Every character has some personal goals as part of their background and I intend to give them an opportunity to resolve those. They may not be successful but they can and will be able to at least try.
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Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2015, 10:15:50 AM »
I approach my campaigns in a way similar to Peter's. I almost always start my players with personal goals and the like, and always start at first level. Typically they start off dealing with bandits if the setting's in a border region, or generally rooting around in town getting into tavern fights and scrapes with the guards if it's more urban. From there they pick up rumors of ruins or the like in nearby woods or mountains.

I can scale my stuff up or down depending on the group's needs, but on the whole my games are also fairly low magic. Spellcasters aren't regulated or controlled...they're just not all that common. There are both organizations and groups in my world, but most of them simply aren't going to view a first level party as any sort of threat. In fact, most major NPCs won't really care about the group until they start making some sort of name for themselves. If they're just poking around in the woods looking for treasure or protecting the odd merchant caravan they aren't likely to draw that sort of attention.
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Offline tbigness

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2015, 10:43:23 AM »
You can start by having the PC's be part of the town population in "jobs". They can be part of the guard, working in the stables, the Inn, apprentices of some type, Magic using apprentice. They could be rivals to each other that an event plied them together (a raid on the village or town). There are a lot of ways to start and keep things local for them to build up or be part of an area without Epic level involvement.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2015, 10:52:59 AM »
Magic in my setting is 'community' level. Meaning that every community has access to some magic. The smallest villages may share a local witch. Priests normally have magic in small towns or else shrines can cast magical effects.

I dislike overarching wizards guilds, instead I prefer individual spell casters taking on one or two apprentices. This spreads magic around the countryside more evenly. I also never understand why powerful guilds employ PC parties when the least amongst them could do the job themselves in half the time, at half the expense and probably half the collateral damage that the PCs will manage.

In towns spell casters that can control fire or water can earn a small stipend for answer shouts of "Fire!". That can lead to adventures or bring PCs into contact with other more powerful spell casters they would not normally meet.

I also like to give characters a NPC who can guide and advise them early on. Sometimes with an agenda of their own. Sometimes that NPC can become a victim and in need.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2015, 10:57:42 AM »
Does anyone remember the opening credits to the original A Team series? Now that was a classic non-epic campaign introduction.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2015, 01:22:37 AM »
Not sure if it will help, but here is how a few of us start campaigns now.

You, the GM, come up with your basic setup.  World/setting, overall arching plot you have in your mind, etc and you give the players just enough info in order to come up with character ideas based on that information.  You then work with each to fine tune that a little more with you, the GM, keeping in mind you can do things with the PC's story that the PC might not even know about.  Sometimes the difficult part here is getting each player to have a reason for actually teaming up and starting the 'adventures'.  Sometimes players will blend their backstories with each other a bit.  I personally tell players to look through all the talents/flaws they might want then I give them an approved list of those with my own costs assigned to them.

My last plot hook was essentially that they all are dissatisfied with a related issue (that is at the core of the overall campaign) and all have, at least some, skill or contacts in various forms of subterfuge/benevolent criminal activities and that most of them can hold their own in at least light melee fights and each received a summons for a mysterious meeting in a tavern in the kingdoms capital.

They players were instructed that only one PC could be a Pure/Hybrid Caster and that any Semi's would need to use their magic as carefully as possible (throwing a fall-ball in a city square would cause utter chaos and panic and probably put you on a lot of powerful peoples lists).  My fantasy setting is setup so that magic is thought to be rare, but is actually quite common.  A large percentage of the population (about 20%) are able to perform very simple spells (think very simple lists that would be akin to 'cantrips' in D&D - spells that you help do what would be considered normal things, but extremely well).  These are 'Arcane' in nature, but are so low powered they are not dangerous.  A small number of these people realize they are actually somehow using magic and might actually develop it into a Open, maybe Closed, list or two that are closely related (this is more dangerous and can result in Arcane spell failures since they are essentially teaching themselves Arcane, i.e. normally dangerous, magic).  The reason they teach themselves is primarily due to a certain religious group that would try to apprehend or kill them for effectively what would be considered witchcraft.  This basically contributes to the fear of magic as once in a while someone trying to teach themselves Arcane Open or Closed lists screws up big time and you have a small crater where their house was (or something similarly spectacular).  Society in general fears magic to varying degrees, but aren't so bloodthirsty about it.  Of those 'casters' about 1% have the power of a Semi and find a way to be taught magic (which narrows their focus into a realm for their own and others safety) and about 1% of the Semi's have the power of a Pure.  About 1% of the Pure's might actually be an Arcane user.  So, point is... it starts you in a low magic somewhat medieval, but fantasy, setting that will eventually become more epic as the campaign progresses.

So, I ended up with a Fighter, Rogue, Warrior Monk, Ranger, Paladin, and an Air Mage.  The Ranger and Paladin's magic are not seen for what they are (magic).  Rangers are simply looked at as 'the mysterious stranger' types and Paladins are seen as divine (which is considered different than what is considered magic).  The Air Mage is (as you can imagine) a way to subtlety use full on magic without being obvious about it (and is damn useful on sailed ships - both on water and in the air - I have very rudimentary, and as a result dangerous, zeppelins).
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Offline Arioch

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 03:21:42 AM »
The last RM campaign I've GMd was something like what your player is asking for, I think.

We had non overarching plot, no recurring villain, no main quest (one of my players described it as "Skyrim without the main quest").
I just made a map of the place the PCs were going to start in, plus the immediate surroundings, and I put a few dungeons/adventure locations in there (an abandoned mine, a bandit's lair, an ancient ruin,...).
Then we made characters and let them loose  :D
They just travelled from place to place as they wished, solved local problems, hunted monsters, looted tombs and things like that.
I expanded the map as they explored further and further, so that in the end we basically had the whole reign mapped.

It was quite fun and refreshing (especially for me, since I didn't have to think too much about what the villains were up to). We went on until the party wandered into the wrong forest and got TPKd by a group of Shards... fun times!  ;D
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2015, 04:19:04 AM »
Skyrim has a main quest?  :)

Sounds like you might be looking for a sandbox setting. You might not go far wrong, then, by taking a look at all the Elder Scrolls games (http://uesp.net is good for that) as well as the unofficial plugins and scavenging them for small and large ideas.
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Offline Arioch

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2015, 06:40:27 AM »
Skyrim has a main quest?  :)

Sounds like you might be looking for a sandbox setting. You might not go far wrong, then, by taking a look at all the Elder Scrolls games (http://uesp.net is good for that) as well as the unofficial plugins and scavenging them for small and large ideas.

Yes, that's a great idea!
Another great source of ideas are all those old MERP (or Shadow World) geographic modules. Lots of ready to run locations and NPCs, just change the names and none will notice  ;)
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline Peter R

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2015, 06:49:13 AM »
Yammahoper once gave a brilliant entry point for a game. The party come to, naked and bruised and have just been tossed into the entrance of a cave system while a lynchmob with crossbows give them the choice of run or die.

What have they done? Where are they? Who are they? The party have no idea. They also don't know but  the choice they are being given is of running into a orc/goblin hold.

No weapons, no armour and I would say no PPs either until they can find somewhere to rest up.
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Offline tbigness

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2015, 09:26:18 AM »
I had fun with a Morrowwind opening for the players. Being dropped off at a Small port city as a recently freed captive with only the cloths on your back and a contact name, then go. I use Carse as the port city to start from and the contact will give hints and a couple of starter missions that are low key and earn a few coppers with opportunities to find more loot, opportunities, contacts and mischief along the way. This was very well received by the players and they wanted to start this way again when they got killed or just stared new characters.
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2015, 02:39:04 PM »
Some creative use of the MM tables and some environmental hazards can be really fun for smaller parties.  Last year I ran a MERP campaign based around Bree at the time of the WoTR.  The challenges were based on Perception, Tracking, Climbing, Swimming, and the travels rules for the first few sessions with a few roleplaying/Influence scenarios as well.  My advise is make time the adversary.  For example,  have the characters need to travel to a distant location, locate herbs, and travel back within a time frame and use the MM table to simulate it.  Have a set of consequences and benefits and award XP based on the various degrees of success.   A "gauntlet" type contest of skill is fun too.  The players can enter themselves in a contest that sees the Race, Climb, Swim, and Balance their way to a finish line with there being prizes for the top 3 or 5 contestants. 

We peppered these types of scenarios in with some really low-level encounters and it was an absolute blast.  The Mages were less useless because they weren't forced into combat all the time.  And, by 3 or 4 sessions in, the players were really attached to the characters.

When we finally actually did the "go here, kill this" type of encounter it was based on the characters being endeared to the locals and seeking to protect their land claim which they had sunken all their money in to.

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Offline chippermonks

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2015, 05:07:04 PM »
Running a town is also a great way to reduce the epicness;seemingly mundane problems become exceptionally important quests, that can still have fantastic solutions and problems ("our aqueducts stopped!" turns out goblins broke it outside of town and are waiting to ambush who ever comes to fix it!).

Additionally the process can start at the bottom, with players doing their best to help the town/run their businesses, till one or more of them become rulers of the town. The whole path there can seem very simple (navigating social circles+fixing metaphorical road blocks) the most "epic" battle might be with an evil baron's mercenaries, or a horde of wandering undead passing by. No need for far flung adventures here!

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2015, 07:10:16 PM »
I'll tend to have a mix of variable foes and running ones.  The way we do character histories I'd say more of the running ones come from PC's histories than the game itself however.

When dealing with organizations there's always going to be someone in charge, however in a long running campaign they may very well have to work their way up to the food chain to find them, so you don't really appear to have a running enemy so much.

However, it can be great fun to literally have a full on 'adventure group' just like the PC's working against them.  They may not meet face to face very often, if at all, but might screw with each other in various ways.  Thwarting plans, beating each other to things, etc.

I'm currently having a hard time deciding what to run (provided the time to even do so).  The rough draft Middle Earth plot-line I've toyed with, my own fantasy setting that's fairly well thought out, or a sandbox style Sci-Fi game.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2015, 01:54:30 AM »
However, it can be great fun to literally have a full on 'adventure group' just like the PC's working against them.  They may not meet face to face very often, if at all, but might screw with each other in various ways.  Thwarting plans, beating each other to things, etc.

This does work well. I have an 'anti party' in my game competing for the same laurels as the party.
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Offline kwickham

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2015, 10:53:51 PM »
A microcosm approach - focus on working their way through the town or area's social ladder. Maybe the party could act as a for-hire type - almost detective-like adventurers. Sort of like Sherlock Holmes. A few threads could occasionally link the story lines here and there into a less epic, but maybe town important issue. A twist here influences another story later or already completed. A character met in one story-line might show up in another.

Offline markc

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Re: Don't be Epic
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2015, 03:02:29 AM »
IMHO,
 A low or not epic approach would be very general tasks to do or the party is on the fringes of the main action. So the group may be part of a war but all of the action happens in other locations so the get good experience/training but not a lot of danger (besides from the dangers of training).
 Some common not epic things IMHO might be; escort a wagon to an out post with obstacles being terrain, weather, food and maybe a broken wagon, track a pack of wolves that are killing cattle, track and bring back a murder to town, help rebuild an outpost (note they are not in charge they are a cog in the machine), the group is a small part of another larger group and takes orders from them with the bigger events happening around them and gathering items for magic items or herbs for others or simply hunting for food for the village.
 So the group does not raid a bandit camp on their own but call in others to raid the camp, the group does not fight the dragon but main aid another group in finding the dragons possible lair or the group tracks down leads for others to follow up on.


IMHO epic things have world changing events that could be influenced by the players actions so anything in which the players are more ordinary are in my book not epic. 
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