Author Topic: Training Packages  (Read 1870 times)

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Offline sulkow82

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Training Packages
« on: December 27, 2016, 04:09:01 AM »
Hello,
I have a question that has bugged me for a long time.  How do you handle training packages when it comes to advancing in levels?  When I originally read the rules, I thought TPs were only for character creation before lvl 1.

Now, I am considering letting players continue purchasing the same package as they advance (at the TP cost).  I might let players change vocations once every three (3) or five (5) levels and lifestyle maybe once in seven (7) or ten (10) lvls.

Do you let the character pick up new packages whenever they want?
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2016, 10:49:59 AM »
Hello,
I have a question that has bugged me for a long time.  How do you handle training packages when it comes to advancing in levels?  When I originally read the rules, I thought TPs were only for character creation before lvl 1.
Indeed this seems to be the main use of TPs. So in our group we make use of TPs during character creation only, but you may start a TP during lvl 1 and finish it in lvl 2.

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Now, I am considering letting players continue purchasing the same package as they advance (at the TP cost).
What about the training time that is listed for every TP? Will a player play another PC instead if his previous PC decides to take the Loremaster TP and study a few years? Or would you simply ignore this training time. For us this time was the main reason we only used TP during character creation. Sometimes a PC indeed had a break (e.g. when the rest of the group died) and took the time to learn a TP. But otherwise we never used TPs past character creation.

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I might let players change vocations once every three (3) or five (5) levels and lifestyle maybe once in seven (7) or ten (10) lvls.
The RMSS rules suggest a player had a maximum of one Lifestyle TP. Why would you want to change this? Please also note that the rules state that a TP may not grant ranks past the first 10 skill ranks. So unless the TP offers (almost) only new skills the PC previously had little to no proficiency, a part of the skills gained from the TP will be lost.

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Do you let the character pick up new packages whenever they want?
No

Offline jdale

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2016, 01:36:00 PM »
In practice we never used them after character creation. Potentially they could be very advantageous, especially if your character is taking up new things, so I would think carefully before reducing the time requirements, and remember to look at the rank limits.
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Offline sulkow82

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 03:25:08 AM »
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What about the training time that is listed for every TP? Will a player play another PC instead if his previous PC decides to take the Loremaster TP and study a few years? Or would you simply ignore this training time.

My idea here was that the adventure played IS the training time.  However, this requires that the character actually uses the skills involved in the package.  If someone picks up more skill levels in long-sword, then roleplaying that time fighting the great hoards could count as TP study time.  This idea implies something which was suggested to me (when I first was introduced to RM).  The idea is that picking up skills when <<making a level>> is an agreement or contract to actually use the skill during play for that level.  If they didn't use the skill, then they don't advance level in that skill.

Another thing about time and making levels is how do you handle time and making levels (even without TPs).  Do you make characters wait until after an adventure is over before they can advance a level.  How often (number of gaming sessions) does it take for someone to make level.  If a character would make a level during a wilderness adventure (or in a foreign hostile country) do you have them wait until they return to friendly territory to advance in skills (TPs or not).

Even when talking about just the skill (let alone the TP), how long would you have someone study for gaining a level?  It would seem rather odd to say that it is acceptable for someone to study for a level of Loremaster as an individual skill but too much as a training package.  If the development points listed are hours spent, then TP costs would amount to about a week.  If it is months, then it is odd that to buy skills in various levels actually costs more individually than in a TP.  So characters would actually be spending more time without packages then with them.  Are we to ask characters to break the flow of a campaign because they made a level. 

If I were to go purely for realism on this level, I just wouldn't offer the training package after game play starts (which could irritate players).

I sometimes consider ignoring the training time in favor of adventure/ play.  Another idea I got is that the player can purchase the training package they already have to gain more levels.  This assumes the idea that they are constantly studying and practicing the skills offered in the package.

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The RMSS rules suggest a player had a maximum of one Lifestyle TP. Why would you want to change this?

For me realism goes both ways on this issue.  I've known people (or known of people) who went from owning a high income business to becoming a Catholic Priest.  Radically different lives.  So while insisting on one training package for a character period can also be reasonable and realistic, there are exceptions.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2016, 09:09:31 AM »
If it works for your game then it is fine. Your game, your rules.

I doubt you will get much consensus as TPs seem to be quite contentious anyway with some seeing them as really cool and adding structure to a characters skills and encouraging role playing skills as opposed to purely adventuring skills. Others see them as unnecessary bloat and an awkward fix for a lack of development points.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 09:10:40 AM »
My idea here was that the adventure played IS the training time.  However, this requires that the character actually uses the skills involved in the package.  If someone picks up more skill levels in long-sword, then roleplaying that time fighting the great hoards could count as TP study time.  This idea implies something which was suggested to me (when I first was introduced to RM).  The idea is that picking up skills when <<making a level>> is an agreement or contract to actually use the skill during play for that level.  If they didn't use the skill, then they don't advance level in that skill.

I think this would work fine as long as the PCs all have access to TPs that reflect what they are doing and that are beneficial for them. If only some PCs do, it will open up a gap within the party and some characters could be overshadowed.
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Offline DeadBob

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 11:37:51 PM »
I had one player who wanted to buy a training package for a character that was in active use. I looked at the time needed for the package, and made the player wait until most of the time (and enough role-play toward that training package) had happened, then allowed him to purchase the package the next time he leveled.

But by then, the cost benefit had vanished (due to the skill point cap in training packages) and after about an hour of comparison, he chose not to buy it.

Offline juza

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 03:11:13 AM »
In my game I permit to buy TP after character creation, but this don't mean that I give up to training time. For example I have a player that started as a fighter with the City Guard TP, after some game sessions happened that the city was conquered by an foreign reign but my players run away and started a new life wandering in outlands in search of adventures. Well after some time I permitted him to purchase the Adventurer TP, just because he was already acting in that way. The other player is a warrior monk with The Temple Monk TP, and now, after fleeing from the city with the other player would love to buy the Wandering Monk TP, I simply said that the wandering time adventuring doesn't count as training time until he starts to act like a wandering sage educating villains and preaching about the meaning of life. Sometimes a good roleplaying leads to a little discount in training time.
That's how I manage it

Offline juza

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Re: Training Packages
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 03:32:15 AM »
I forgot to write that for TP gained after character creation I don't allow to purchase the specials.