Topic: Best Way to handle Perception vs Stalk&Hide?

[Tywyll]

So yeah, what's the best way to do this? Is there anything wrong with both roll, high roll wins?

[Hurin]

So yeah, what's the best way to do this? Is there anything wrong with both roll, high roll wins?

I don't see any problem with that, and in fact that's usually the way I handle it. Stalker/Hider makes a Stalk or Hide roll, and that number is what the perceiver needs to get to spot him/her.

I just impose a penalty or bonus to the roll depending on circumstances. If it is pitch black in a dungeon with no sources of light, the person hiding is going to get a bonus; and if it is broad daylight, the perceiver is going to get the bonus instead.

[Tywyll]

Now the question is why haven't I ever seen that as a resolution method in a RM book? 

[Spectre771]

If the person is Stalk/Hiding, I use Sense Ambush/Assassin vs. Stalk/Hide.  If they don't have that I'll give them Sense Ambush at -50 or 1/2 General perception.   

General Perception is just a cursory glance around, not really looking for anything in particular, let alone a would-be assassin.  Sense Ambush is more targeted at finding the ambush locations or where an assassin would most likely be.  I don't like to give them General Perception to locate a Stalk/Hider, but that could just be the convention my group has always used.

[Tywyll]

I'm not using any perception skills beyond General so that works for me.

Okay, related question...what happens to someone who is surprised? Or rather, what can they do? I'm specifically asking about Classic, but I'll take any version that has an answer to this.

[Malim]

So...
I make a stalk/hide total roll+ skill = 189
The guard rolls 112 on his perception... does he see me then?

[Hurin]

So...
I make a stalk/hide total roll+ skill = 189
The guard rolls 112 on his perception... does he see me then?

For me, depends on the circumstances.

If it is in a dark cave, then no, he doesn't see you, because before anyone rolled, I ruled that it will be hard (-10) for him to see you, and applied a -10 to his roll. Your total is 189, his is 102... he doesn't see you.

If it is in broad daylight and he's walking up the road with no cover, yes, he sees you, because before anyone rolled I ruled that broad daylight gives a +50 bonus and the fact that there is no cover makes it a Casual (+70) maneuver to see you. Your total is 189, his is 223 (112 +50 + 70).

[jdale]

Higher roll wins is pretty easy (with modifiers as appropriate), but it doesn't really handle degrees of success. You roll 112 hiding and the guard rolls 189 to spot you, was that an absolute success (where he gets a clear view of you) or a marginal one (where he knows someone is there but not who) or partial (where he thinks there might be someone there)? By the numbers, 189 is absolute but that doesn't take into account your margin of success hiding. Or what if you both roll failures, but you did worse at hiding than the guard did at spotting you?

RMU takes your margin of success (12) and applies it as a penalty on the perception roll. So 189 becomes 177 (absolute success), but if your hiding roll had been 134 the perception roll would have been 189-34 = 155 (regular success). If you succeed extremely well, your foe may even get confused (e.g. an amazing hiding roll could result in an absolute failure on the attempt to spot you, perhaps indicating the guard falls for your ploy and goes to investigate the wrong area).

But if you just want to know who won, and aren't concerned about the margin of success/failure, higher wins is perfectly fine and will give the same outcome.

[Tywyll]

Well, if distraction was the goal I can see bothering to use that level of detail, but otherwise I don't know how important it is. It also hits the roll-under systems have of what happens when both actors achieve the same success levels? A person can't be hidden and spotted at the same time.

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[Malim]

Im playing RM2 btw

[Spectre771]

So...
I make a stalk/hide total roll+ skill = 189
The guard rolls 112 on his perception... does he see me then?

The higher roll wins.  If the target is surprised or the stalk succeeds, then +25 back attack or +25 surprise bonus.  If the player is hiding or using Surveillance as a skill, then I would give a bonus to Surveillance either a flat +# bonus or the difference between the two rolls.

If the target spots the would-be attacker, then no bonuses for either party or the watcher gains no useful information from the surveillance.

[Ecthelion]

We use <stalk/hide bonus of the stalking/hiding character> - <perception bonus of the character on watch> + 50 + <open-ended roll> and look up on the Static Maneuver table. That's one roll and relatively easy to handle. See more in the house rules document on my homepage, if you're interested.