Author Topic: Remedial Ambush...  (Read 1725 times)

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Offline GoblynByte

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Remedial Ambush...
« on: August 04, 2017, 02:42:23 AM »
The wording of the Ambush skill seems, to me, to be a bit ambiguous in a couple spots. In 20 years I’ve never been completely sure I’ve been using it right. Perhaps I’m just over thinking it. Perhaps I’m an idiot. Either way, I was wondering if someone could help me out by explaining exactly how it works from start to finish.

So, here’s the scenario: Geoff sees an orc standing guard just a few yards away in front of the only means of escape. The orc is completely unaware of Geoff’s presence but stands right next to an alarm bell. The orc is wearing a chain shirt and a helm, and is leaning on a spear. Geoff must eliminate the orc if he hopes to escape. He has a dagger (skill of +70), his total stalking skill is +65, and he has 5 ranks in Ambush.

Please end two decades of self-doubt and perceived ignorance. How is this played out?

Note: This isn’t tied to any specific characters. So if any additional stats are needed just toss some in.

Also Note: Please give me your best approximation of the rules as written. I’m sure a lot of house rules exist with legitimate theories supporting them. But I’m interested in the intent of the existing design. Call it a compulsion.

Thanks in advance!
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Offline Malim

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2017, 03:37:28 AM »
Geoff: Stalk/hide skill roll to sneak up on orc.
Orc: Perception skill roll vs Geoff Stalk/hide (if orc is succesfull it will be normal face to face combat, if not Geoff is now behind Orc)
Geoff: ambush skill roll, 101+ is success ( if he makes it he can now add his ranks in ambush to his maybe incomming crit )
Geoff: Dagger table vs at 14 skill roll, it suprise attack so +30 to OB. If Geoff makes a crit he can add or not add/subtract his ambush ranks in the crit.
If orc dies yey if not normal combat.
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Offline GoblynByte

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2017, 03:43:06 AM »
Geoff: Stalk/hide skill roll to sneak up on orc.
Orc: Perception skill roll vs Geoff Stalk/hide (if orc is succesfull it will be normal face to face combat, if not Geoff is now behind Orc)
Geoff: ambush skill roll, 101+ is success ( if he makes it he can now add his ranks in ambush to his maybe incomming crit )
Geoff: Dagger table vs at 14 skill roll, it suprise attack so +30 to OB. If Geoff makes a crit he can add or not add/subtract his ambush ranks in the crit.
If orc dies yey if not normal combat.
Excellent. I was more or less correct, then. The skill description is not really explicit in the nature of the initial Ambush roll. Okay. Thank you!!!
A man said to the universe:
"Sir I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
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Offline Malim

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 03:44:48 AM »
The one thing that can be tricky is the stalk/hide vs perception skill. There is some rules somewhere about it.
Rest is pretty straight forward!
Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 08:16:16 AM »
We don't roll an ambush roll. As the skill doesn't include stats, nor does the profession bonus apply, we don't consider it a normal skill, and, since the skill description doesn't necessarily imply a skill roll and there's already a stalk/hide roll, we felt there was no additional gain (whilst breaking the skill system and imposing a second roll) thus no need for one.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 09:55:51 PM »
RMSS explicitly requires an ambush roll, but RM2 does not. RMU doesn't either.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 11:33:31 AM »
Geoff: Stalk/hide skill roll to sneak up on orc.
Orc: Perception skill roll vs Geoff Stalk/hide (if orc is succesfull it will be normal face to face combat, if not Geoff is now behind Orc)
Geoff: ambush skill roll, 101+ is success ( if he makes it he can now add his ranks in ambush to his maybe incomming crit )
Geoff: Dagger table vs at 14 skill roll, it suprise attack so +30 to OB. If Geoff makes a crit he can add or not add/subtract his ambush ranks in the crit.
If orc dies yey if not normal combat.

I would also add the +25 for back attack in addition to the +30 for surprise, assuming he snuck up from behind. 

Versus an Ambush or Stalk/Hide skill, we used Sense Ambush Assassin, as that's exactly what's about to happen to the poor fool.  He's being ambushed by an assassination attempt :)

The only time we used an Ambush roll is if a player wanted to set up a successful Ambush (RM2).  101+ resulted in setting up a decent ambush situation with a bonus given to the initial attack or any over 100 being subtracted from the target's Sense Ambush/Assassin roll.

Silver the Slippery has 7 ranks in Ambush wants to ambush a coach.  He rolls 115 total on Ambush and finds a beauty of a spot on the road.  It's not on the blind corner where the coachman would expect it, but instead in a tree that's near a large stone in the road.  The coachman will have to swerve closer to the tree to avoid the rock.  The coachman is suspicious, rolls Sense Ambush/Assassin because that boulder seems little out of place.  Coachman rolls 110, yay, but -15 from Silver's Ambush skill (115-100).  Poor guy, 95 total, the coachman doesn't realize he's rolling into an Ambush.  Silver's ambush is successful, he leaps from the tree, gets +30 for surprise attack, +15 for flank attack, rolls great on the Dagger attack table and gets an E-Puncture crit.  Silver rolls 71 E-crit, modifies down to a 66 E-crit.  No more Coachman.
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Offline aarcc

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2021, 03:52:41 PM »
RMSS explicitly requires an ambush roll, but RM2 does not. RMU doesn't either.

Indeed the use of the word "SKILL" causes confusion. Also why in RMSS did it say a Roll was required, editing error I'd suggest.

1.AMBUSH (SP) This is the ability to make a very precise attack. To use his Ambush skill a character must approach his foe undetected and be able to strike before the foe can react. If the ambush skill is successfully used, the character may modify his roll on the resulting Arms Law Normal (not Large or Super-Large) Critical Strike Roll. (RMC Pg 89).

2.AMBUSH (SP) This is the ability to make a very precise attack. To use Ambush successfully; a character must approach a foe undetected and be able to strike before the foe can react; the Ambusher needs to;
a.    Make a successful stealth (stalk and/or hide) roll vs the foe’s perception, so undetected. Foe does not need to be rear or flank facing for Ambush to succeed. The Ambusher just needs to be undetected.
b.    Attack and achieve a strike that produces a Critical Hit.
c.    Roll the Critical Result after which; add or deduct the Ambush ranks as the Ambusher desires.
If Ambush is successfully used, the character may modify this roll on the resulting Arms Law Normal Critical Strike Roll. (Edited version)

I'd like to see what it says on AMBUSH in RMU.

Online Hurin

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2021, 04:11:37 PM »
I'd like to see what it says on AMBUSH in RMU.

Ask, and ye shall receive:

"Ambush
[In] Ambush is the ability to make a very precise attack
and can only occur when the opponent is completely
unaware of the character’s attack. In such a situation, the
ambushing character makes an attack roll as normal
(with a bonus for surprise and frequently for a rear or
flank attack). If a critical is obtained, the character may
modify his roll on the appropriate Critical Strike Table.
The roll can be adjusted up or down by any number up
to the character’s ranks in the Ambush skill. A separate
Ambush maneuver is not required. Ambush may be used
against a foe already in a melee situation if the foe is
unaware of the attack, but because position is relatively
unpredictable in a general melee situation, Ambush skill
rank is halved in this case.
     If the target is killed or knocked unconscious from the
attack, the Ambush skill can also be used to make the
attack silent. An Absolute Maneuver roll is made and if
successful then the attack and target do not make any
noise (unless the GM determines the type of attack
cannot be made silently). The difficulty of the maneuver
should be based on how loud the attack made is, and
how close any observers are.

Specializations: each Combat Training skill (e.g., Melee,
Ranged), or a Directed Spells specialization."
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2021, 04:44:29 PM »
We don't roll an ambush roll. As the skill doesn't include stats, nor does the profession bonus apply, we don't consider it a normal skill, and, since the skill description doesn't necessarily imply a skill roll and there's already a stalk/hide roll, we felt there was no additional gain (whilst breaking the skill system and imposing a second roll) thus no need for one.
This is how I handle it also. The person who is able to use the Ambush skill successfully, has done all of the following, in order to do so:

1. Buy Stealth.
2. Buy Ambush.
3. Buy attack skill.
4. Succeed at a Stealth check.
5. Succeed at an attack roll.

After doing all that, I don't think is is strictly necessary to make them make yet another roll. We all know, that a way to ensure a player has the highest chance of failure is to make them make multiple rolls to do something.
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Offline PiXeL01

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Re: Remedial Ambush...
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2021, 07:06:39 PM »
1 - roll stalk > orc rolls perception
2 - roll attack > if undetected orc rolls Sense Ambush/Assassin
3 - if orc fails modify crit roll up or down by a number up to Ambush ranks. (Rm2)
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