Author Topic: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software  (Read 118617 times)

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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2014, 11:54:28 AM »
It is possible to export the tables from one version and insert them into the other?
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Offline Moostik

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2014, 12:15:16 PM »
Please enlighten me.
I see the critical tables for every RMSS/FRP book seem to have been included.
Are there any plans to add the attack tables from elemental companion, arcane companion, and the armory?
Can't live without them....

Offline Merkir

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2014, 05:58:10 PM »
There have been numerous posts regarding which tables have been included in the RMSS/FRP Minion Tables product.

The short answer is - the tables from the core rulebooks, but it appears extras have slipped in.

Note that the intention for both the RM2/RMC tables product and the RMSS/FRP tables product was to include core rulebook tables only. It has now become apparent that the table data I was given included some extra tables from companions (Void Criticals for example?). All I can say is that these have become an unexpected bonus in the RMSS/FRP tables product. Note that I'm no expert in RMSS/FRP as I play RM Classic.

Now regarding future upgrades/products which might include tables from companion books or other supplements, that is entirely up to ICE as to how they wish to commercialise their intellectual property. I will be guided by ICE as to which tables get put into each product.

The possibilities include:
1. Adding tables to the two "core tables" products,
2. Creating new "expansion tables" products based upon companions/supplements, which may be installed as additions to the "core table" products,
3. Other ideas?

I'm sure ICE would like to receive everyone's feedback on this topic... a good time to post, perhaps? :)

Offline Merkir

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2014, 06:36:51 PM »
a.   When I initiate an attack with a PC towards an NPC and use a selected weapon (example: broadsword), there is no way to designate that the weapon is either magic, mithril, holy or slaying, when attacking the opponent. While the tables may be in place for the results of a given attack, how does one designate a weapon today as one of the above listed augmented types (ie: mithril dagger, holy battle axe, magic  flail, and so on…)?

This question was raised by someone a few weeks (months?) ago but I can't find it now. This is an area that needs extra software development to work properly. The good news is that the RMSS/FRP tables product includes these special weapon crit tables vs Large and Super Large creatures, and it should be a matter of replacing the normal crit code with the special (mithril, holy, slaying, magic vs Lge or S.Lge) crit code and the app returns the crit result as normal. I need to test this further, confirm, and then I can expand the "Show Crit Codes" popup included in the app to display all of these special crit codes, which can then be used by the GM.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2014, 06:41:54 PM »
Huh. I never considered that I would not be getting ALL the RMSS/RMFRP tables (attack and critical).  If they are merely something that would be added on free in an update, I'm cool with that.  But if I have to pay more (i.e. beyond the $20 for the base program) I'm not quite as excited about it at that point, mostly because I can't use it to actually replace all my RMSS/RMFRP hardcopy materials.

Just one mans opinion, but I think $20 is reasonable for a COMPLETE RMSS/RMFRP license.

I also now think a listing of what is included in each program now need to be added to the information about them on RPGNow (etc) - because this: "This license unlocks the entire set of weapon & critical tables for the RMSS/FRP Rolemaster rules for Rolemaster Combat Minon." doesn't seem so accurate anymore.
- Cory Magel

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Offline Merkir

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2014, 07:29:51 PM »
A player/npc uses some points of OB for parry. Later it's time for him to attack. I review the log but there's no indication of how much he allocated to parry. This means I have to have manual make a note. If the log included this one extra piece of value this issue is gone.

For example: Instead of

12:23 Yatumbo vs Goblin #2: Broadsword(40) vs AT8(10): 71➜101➜12BS
           Crit Roll 74 ➜ Wounds Applied (18,0,-40,0,0,3,1,0,0)

like this

12:23 Yatumbo vs Goblin #2: Broadsword OB 40 (OB 80 - 20 activity, -20 reserved parry) vs AT8 DB10 (DB20 + 10 Parry -10 Activity, -10 Misc): 71➜101➜12BS
           Crit Roll 74 ➜ Wounds Applied (18,0,-40,0,0,3,1,0,0)

This would be a great addition. It's on the TODO list, and it would be implemented as you suggest, as an extra option in the Options panel which allows the GM to select the verbosity level they desire, probably defaulting to the current level.

Offline Merkir

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2014, 07:55:33 PM »
I also now think a listing of what is included in each program now need to be added to the information about them on RPGNow (etc) - because this: "This license unlocks the entire set of weapon & critical tables for the RMSS/FRP Rolemaster rules for Rolemaster Combat Minon." doesn't seem so accurate anymore.

Cory is entirely correct, of course, and I just looked back at an email I sent ICE back on 2nd Dec and sure enough that was the suggested wording I gave them for the RPGNow product page for RM2/Classic! Amazing what the omission of a simple word like "core" does.

So either ICE will need to add the word "core" to the product page, or perhaps ICE will tell us that they are entirely happy to have ALL tables added to these two products from all of the RM companions / supplements? (hint, hint)

From a technical point of view, it would be very simple to add extra tables to the existing RM2/Classic and RMSS/FRP data files. Then everyone who has already purchased their Licences can simply use them again to download the expanded table sets. It's just a matter of someone sending me the extra tables in the correct format, and I believe the Armory tables have in fact already been put into the correct format.

Again, it comes down to ICE making the decision. It's their IP.

I'm only one vote too, but I vote for ALL tables to be included in the existing two products. It might even be commercially advantageous for ICE to do so because anybody who uses Minion and sees "Katana" or "Void Bolt" as attack options, but doesn't have the Armory or Arcane Companion, may be tempted to buy it. A typical up-sell situation.

Offline jdale

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2014, 08:22:06 PM »
I don't know who on the conversion team had which tables, but I do have Excel files for Mana Ball, Mana Bolt, Void Ball, Void Bolt, Katana, Chigiriki, Kama, Metal Whip, Nunchaku, Tetsubo, Three Section Staff, and Wakizashi. (Some of them maybe need a quick check-over though.) Is that the complete list of missing attack tables for RMSS or are there more? If it's just those, and the conversion team just needs those files, we can make this happen.
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Offline gandalf970

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2014, 09:21:55 PM »
Is there any way to make stuff optional with a check box.  I don't use the percentage of hit points lost as a negative, so i would like that optional.  That was always the essence of Rolemaster, the options.  Hopefully that will find it's way into this product.  Also how do you switch between RM2 and RMSS.

Offline Merkir

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2014, 10:46:56 PM »
Is there any way to make stuff optional with a check box.  I don't use the percentage of hit points lost as a negative, so i would like that optional.  That was always the essence of Rolemaster, the options.  Hopefully that will find it's way into this product.  Also how do you switch between RM2 and RMSS.

Yes. This will be an option, with the default setting being whatever the core rules say. In general anything like this that can easily be made optional will be found in the Settings menu. Besides, we need far more options. There's only one at present - what dice to use when rolling Initiative.

Offline Moostik

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2014, 07:20:42 AM »
I don't know who on the conversion team had which tables, but I do have Excel files for Mana Ball, Mana Bolt, Void Ball, Void Bolt, Katana, Chigiriki, Kama, Metal Whip, Nunchaku, Tetsubo, Three Section Staff, and Wakizashi. (Some of them maybe need a quick check-over though.) Is that the complete list of missing attack tables for RMSS or are there more? If it's just those, and the conversion team just needs those files, we can make this happen.

Those. Although I can't find MA Companion for sale anywhere, although I have the printed version. Those weapons and the additional crits for MAs would be awesome. But mainly I mean those from the Armory, see table of contents below:

Blades
2.31 Bastard Axe ......................... 4
2.32 Bastard Sword ..................... 5
2.33 Cutlass ................................. 6
2.34 Foil ....................................... 7
2.35 Great Sword ......................... 8
2.36 Knife .................................... 9
2.37 Long Scimitar .................... 10
2.38 Long Sword ....................... 11
Japanese Blades
2.51 Katana ................................ 12
2.52 Kyotetsu-shoge .................. 13
2.53 Nagamaki ........................... 14
2.54 Naginata............................. 15
2.55 Ninjato ............................... 16
2.56 No-Dachi ........................... 17
2.57 Shuriken............................. 18
2.58 Wakizashi .......................... 19
Oriental Weapons
2.91 Comet Hammer ................. 20
2.92 Jitte .................................... 21
2.93 Nunchaku........................... 22
2.94 Rope Dart .......................... 23
2.95 Sai ...................................... 24
2.96 Steel Whip ......................... 25
2.97 Three Section Staff ............ 26
2.98 Tiger Claw ......................... 27
2.99 Tiger Hook ........................ 28
2.100 War Fan ............................. 29
Pole Arms
2.111 Bardiche............................. 30
2.112 Beaked Axe ....................... 31
2.113 Bec de Corbin .................... 32
2.114 Fauchard ............................ 33
2.115 Glaive ................................ 34
2.116 Guisarme ........................... 35
2.117 Harpoon ............................. 36
2.118 Heavy Spear ...................... 37
2.119 Lucerne Hammer ............... 38
2.120 Man Catcher ...................... 39
2.121 Military Fork ..................... 40
2.122 Partisan .............................. 41
2.123 Pike .................................... 42
2.124 Pole Axe ............................ 43
2.125 Ranseur .............................. 44
2.126 Trident ............................... 45
Unusual Weapons
2.131 Aklys ................................. 46
2.132 Blowpipe ........................... 47
2.133 Boomerang ........................ 48
2.134 Cat o’ Nine Tails ............... 49
2.135 Dart .................................... 50
2.136 Gladiator’s Net .................. 51
2.137 Hand Crossbow ................. 52
2.138 Nodwick ............................ 53
2.139 Lasso .................................. 54
2.140 Mullet ................................ 55
2.141 Staff Sling .......................... 56
2.142 Atlatl/Woomera ................. 57

(I realize there are several weapons with (sometimes very) different attack tables if both MA companion and The Armory is used)
...AND:

I'm not pointing out these shortcomings as an error, if I have to pay 20$ (a third time), I will. But they most definitely need to be available, and as an addition to (not replacement of) rmss/frp tables.

....and I could go on about more tables, but these are the most important ones, and are pretty much part of the FRP canon.

A final question: What version of arms law was used in the "RMSS/FRP" attack tables?

Offline Moostik

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2014, 07:28:17 AM »
By the way, I think the Armory tables are already converted to json, even as of Nov-13, which was, I think, the time I offered to do the job but was reassured the job had already been done....?

Offline LonePaladin

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2014, 01:47:44 PM »
Is there a way for us to manually create the tables we need? I'd brought up the question of using Minion for Spacemaster: Privateers, and you said it should work. The help screens in Minion imply that I can create my own weapon and crit tables and add them via an Options menu.


Except there is no Options menu.


I don't recall the exact wording, but I believe you said there were no plans on making an official SM:P add-on for Minion. I'm willing to make my own data files, if necessary.

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2014, 04:28:17 PM »
I have no objection to the Armory tables being added to the RMSS data set. I don't have an objection to the Arcane Companion tables being added, but we don't have any sensible build files to give the dataset team. With regard to Martial Arts Companion, we don't sell it because we've not been able to track down Steve to make a deal to buy back the book.  Again, no build files, but the tables can be added - hopefully we will find Steve at some point and he can get the benefit from renewed interest in his book.

Best wishes,
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Offline Merkir

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2014, 07:40:44 PM »
I have a lot to say, most of which will have to wait until I have more time (tonight, Aussie time). Just a few initial comments though...

Firstly and most importantly, great news from Nicholas that all of the tables can be included. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say a big thank you to Nicholas, GCP and ICE!

Secondly, Moostik listed 54 extra weapons tables from the Armory. Wow that's a lot. I'm sure I'm in a minority when I say I need those extra weapons like I need a hole in the head. I don't get excited by extra weapons, I'm more a roleplayer so pretty useless in my campaign. All I see is a lot of extra spam being included in the Minion weapon list. I know, I'm a minority so don't bother telling me so :P.  The important thing is that I'm very happy to add these weapons, and we just have to be careful that they are added in such a way that those people that only want core tables are not slowed down/disadvantaged. The select boxes are going to get crazy, but with careful use of extra weapon groups all should be ok. And potential here for extra option(s) within the Settings menu to turn weapon groups on or off, perhaps. 

I will have a lot more to say on this topic, and answer other questions tonight.

Offline shorn

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2014, 07:44:15 PM »
I have no objection to the Armory tables being added to the RMSS data set. I don't have an objection to the Arcane Companion tables being added, but we don't have any sensible build files to give the dataset team. With regard to Martial Arts Companion, we don't sell it because we've not been able to track down Steve to make a deal to buy back the book.  Again, no build files, but the tables can be added - hopefully we will find Steve at some point and he can get the benefit from renewed interest in his book.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

Speaking as a member of said dataset team...we have created a tool that would allow us to easily get those tables into the minion format. If the tables were in  a specific excel format it would take maybe a few hours to generate the minion files for all of RMSS. Putting them into that excel format might take a little bit longer if we did not have digital copies of the files already. Still a quick scan, PDF, OCR would do the trick nicely.


Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2014, 12:21:33 AM »
With regard to Martial Arts Companion, we don't sell it because we've not been able to track down Steve to make a deal to buy back the book.  Again, no build files, but the tables can be added - hopefully we will find Steve at some point and he can get the benefit from renewed interest in his book.
I've tried to track Steve down off and on for years with no luck... and I'm pretty darn good at tracking things down on the internet.
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Offline Xusha of Dhelos

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2014, 02:04:11 AM »
Sorry for the slightly off topic, but I've just seen the Armory. I MUST HAVE THIS!

p.s. Merkir, I think you can be a roleplayer and still want the extra tables!
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Offline Xusha of Dhelos

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2014, 02:43:41 AM »
Just wanted to add my tupence on armory, complexity et all in relation to minion.

Adding the armory dataset, In my case I know it would be great for two of my players. One a shuriken wielding monk, the other a long sword wielding thief. In the days before minion, I'd ask each player to take ownership of their own weapon tables. As in have them read off results from their own tables. Post minion, it'd be great to see these additional datasets included in minion. Far from adding to complexity, it would in fact reduce the existing complexity of having to remember and input weapon modifiers used when looking up the results of these non-core weapons on the alternative tables currently used in the absence of these new armory tables.

And I appreciate you're being very careful to not over complicate the software. But surely having a few more checkboxes under options is consistent with the rolemaster philosophy of  choice and flexibility whilst hardly over complicating matters. Besides, I really doubt people who favour simplicity over everything are the profile of your typical rolemaster player. 

In other words, and speaking strictly from my own experience of fans of rolemaster, I think, not only we can take it, I suspect in general we like it. And at the end of the day it still all comes down to one roll, which for me means all the variety of options that gets us there is not complexity, but depth, choice and flexibility. I think this is as true for the game as it is for Minion.
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Offline Moostik

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Re: Rolemaster Combat Minion - RM combat tracking software
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2014, 05:11:49 AM »
Well, I'm running a campaign where several of those tables are already in use. Notably the excellent Bastard Sword table, the Blowgun, the Gladiator's net, the Hand Crossbow, and the Glaive. I love the book and so does my players.

Now, with emphasis on roleplaying and detail, I must say this book was a relief when it came out because
1) we never liked using existing tables and keeping track of a bunch of modifiers to them when using weapons from the "other weapons" listing, and
2) modifying existing weapons didn't seem to accurately reflect the difference between these and the weapons the tables were meant for, and
3) for the first time in history, there was an actual difference between the whole barrage of vastly different weapons known as pole arms.

In essence, this goes for minion as well, it would bother me a lot more having to type in different modifiers for differ groups of armor types, rather then just selecting the right table. Also, I just have to select the table once for each character, and they could easily be further grouped. Even just one additional group for pole arms would solve half the issue.

Lastly, I did build my campaign with emphasis on cultural differences, and the different cultures actually do use different weapons.

All of the above being for the sake of conversation only, no offence or hard feelings intended. And thank you Merkir, Nicholas, and ICE, for being so generous.
But even with these tables added, I'm hoping to see a way to add our own tables sometime. I'm using my own custom tables for dwarven weapons from RMSS:R&C:UR  :D