Author Topic: 1st HARP game session done. Lots of problems and questions :)  (Read 1846 times)

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Offline johniemi

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Hello, I GM'ed my first HARP session today. Most of the game went smooth but the combats drag out too long and are too complicated rules-wise. Below are my questions, please tell me what you think and if there's something we did wrong? We are using the 2nd ed.(?) 192 page book.

I hope my players also register on this forum and make their own comments :)

1. Moving during combat, circling behind etc.: The rules state that you get +15 for flanking from the side. So if you're face to face with an enemy, why not just move a few feet to the side so that you can flank him, thus getting a -10 penalty for moving under 10ft but a +15 bonus for flanking?

We ruled that this is ok as it stimulates moving in combat and circling your opponent (as in boxing). We tried a test combat where you could not move without using the Withdraw From Melee action and this made the combats static and boring as anything. Nobody naturally moved at all :) So this is not an option.

And relating to dancing around your opponent: Are there Attacks of Opportunity / Opportunity Attacks in HARP? We didn't find a rule so we figured no. But on the other hand we have Withdraw from Melee... so that had us confused: can we move in melee or not???

2. Actions in a single combat round? We are confused can you Parry and Attack in the same round? Can you Parry and Stand Up from prone? And if you can Parry, when do you state it? HARP lists a boatload of actions but it's very hard figuring out which ones can be used together and what can't be used together with other actions.

3. What are the penalties and bonuses for attacking a prone enemy and being prone and being attacked yourself?

4. THIS in my opinion is the most important question: What house rules you have for speeding up combat? And have you encountered problems where your game is basically just hunting a lucky roll of 96-100 to get something done?

At this point we think there are too many small rules (charge: you have to count feet which give you bonuses and penalties of +/-1 = make this a static +20/-20 if you charge from over 20ft away and +10/-10 if you charge under 20ft.). What rules/actions can we drop out? Even the different iterations of parry are so damn confusing and hard to keep track of (Parry, Full Parry, Multiple Parry). So how to streamline combat? I think the only viable MAIN actions in combat should be: Move / Melee attack / Ranged attack / Spell / A combination skill of Disarm-Trip-Grapple :)

The PC's are level 4-5 and already at this point we are starting to see the game shifting from rolling good numbers on a d100 to needing to EXCEPTIONAL numbers, aka, having to roll 96 or more to do anything meaningful to your enemy. The DB's of the characters are around 100 without spells and other activation type abilities and their DB's are 200 AND ABOVE with one round of buffing spells, activating monk abilities etc. Thus in combat you just have to wait for a lucky 96-100 so you can roll higher than DB and this becomes boring and scary as well - if it's like this at lvl 4-5, what will it be in the higher levels when you have more spells, more abilities to use, magic items etc.?

For example, our lvl5 monk could take on an Adult Dragon and probably survive many many rounds before running out of Chi Defense (15 rounds to be exact).

All in all, we will play this once more with some tweaks (and help from you guys) and if combats cannot be speeded up/simplified we just have to play an another system :( But hopefully we'll get help in how to simplify the mechanics in combat.

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: 1st HARP game session done. Lots of problems and questions :)
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 01:38:07 PM »
Qu 1: 2 second rounds - you move, your opponent changes facing to match you. If you've ganged up on an opponent, then the flanking is worthwhile doing.

No attacks of opportunity

Qu 2: Parry is simply sacrificing OB to increase DB. Therefore you can attack and parry. Standing up from prone is 2 seconds used, so only a generous GM would allow some parrying as well. Full Parry is a bona-fide action where you are all-defensive. Multiple Parry is trying to parry multiple opponents at once and so like Full Parry, minimal chance of harming the opponent.

Q.3 Prone is treated the same as Foe downed so attacker gets +40 OB

Q.4 use Power Strike if your characters have OB to burn to push damage caps up one size.

Generally I don't see characters in my game needing to roll open-ended to harm their opponents (although they won't object to an open-ended roll to put an opponent down really fast). Nor am I seeing characters with 200+ DB and the characters are 10th level plus.

How are your characters reaching 100+ OB at 4th-5th level and how are they then reaching 200+?

Please note that in the current version of HARP, monsters have all lost their gifted ranks of survival instinct and get their DB from armor, quickness, talents and chi defense like everyone else.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline johniemi

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Re: 1st HARP game session done. Lots of problems and questions :)
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 02:23:00 PM »
Here's the summary of my players' DB's:

Warrior Mage
+20 Soft leather armor
+22 Quickness bonus
+40 Steel Skin spell (cast with more PP in one round)
+100 Bladeturn spell (instant spell)
Total DB 182 against one attack.

Rogue/Ranger:
+20 Soft leather armor
+20 Instictive Defense talent
+20 Quickness bonus
+24 Swashbuckler talent
+15 Buckler
Total DB 99.

Monk:
+20 Instictive Defense talent
+30 Quickness bonus
+30 Swashbuckler talent
+15 Sai Weapon Defense
+66+10 Chi Defense (I don't understand what the +10 is stated here, but this is what he wrote)
Total DB 171.

And the monk also gave me his OB:
+66 Martial arts style
+10 Self Discipline
+30 Skill Focus
Total OB 106.

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: 1st HARP game session done. Lots of problems and questions :)
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2017, 04:10:13 PM »
Here's the summary of my players' DB's:

Warrior Mage
+20 Soft leather armor
+22 Quickness bonus
+40 Steel Skin spell (cast with more PP in one round)
+100 Bladeturn spell (instant spell)
Total DB 182 against one attack.


Soft leather armor means +2 PP casting penalty. Under current rules, Steel Skin is 4 PP base for 20 DB. Scaling to 40 DB is +8 PP. So -50 scaling penalty and casting it in one round is another -20 penalty, so -70 overall.

Bladeturn is now 6 PP base and reaching -100 takes 18 PP & ranks of scaling. So not possible any longer for your Warrior Mage

Quote
Rogue/Ranger:
+20 Soft leather armor
+20 Instictive Defense talent
+20 Quickness bonus
+24 Swashbuckler talent
+15 Buckler
Total DB 99.

Legal. Although the high stat bonuses that all the characters have raises an eyebrow and I suspect that they have been spending DPs to raise stats on level advancement. In current rules, characters get a flat 50 DPs per level regardless of stats, which means that while stat raising has value, it does not generate a virtuous spiral of extra bonuses and extra DPs.

Quote
Monk:
+20 Instictive Defense talent
+30 Quickness bonus
+30 Swashbuckler talent
+15 Sai Weapon Defense
+66+10 Chi Defense (I don't understand what the +10 is stated here, but this is what he wrote)
Total DB 171.

And the monk also gave me his OB:
+66 Martial arts style
+10 Self Discipline
+30 Skill Focus
Total OB 106.

Chi Defense, if successfully activated, is skill rank bonus not skill bonus (so stats do not count). It also imposes a penalty of -20 to all actions including attacks. Hence the freebie 10. In the case of Monks, they autoreduce this penalty by 5 at 1st level, another 5 at 3rd, another 5 at 6th and final 5 at 9th. Assuming Monk is 4th or 5th level, OB is still reduced by 10 though when Chi Defense is up. Once Chi Defense has been used of course, it cannot be activated again for 1 minute for every round it has been used.

For the Monk's OB, the character needs as many skill ranks in either Martial Arts Strikes or Martial Arts Sweeps as they have ranks in the style. Essentially they pay twice for this fancy attack. Assuming this is the weapon kata style, then the stats are SD/Ag, so something not quite right there. I assume the +30 Skill Focus is human +10 applied to style, then the 1st-level and 5th-level Monk bonuses.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline Felros

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Re: 1st HARP game session done. Lots of problems and questions :)
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2018, 05:29:21 PM »
I see where you go. Usually, I have noticed HARP escalates much more for the DB than the OB. In high level characters, it´s hard to hit, and makes almost mandatory to full attack to reach some damage. I have tried many solutions, but nothing that convinces me... Ill keep looking, though