Author Topic: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?  (Read 26245 times)

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Offline egdcltd

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Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« on: January 29, 2016, 05:21:13 AM »
Making an Adventure Path for Shadow World is something that has come up a few times. One problem with doing so is having enough time/ability to create one. So, how about if a number of people try making one?

Possibly the best place to start would be by using one of the following modules:

Demons of the Burning Night
Gethaena Underearth Emer
Islands of the Oracle
Kingdom of the Desert Jewel
Quellbourne: Land of the Silver Mist

These can all, as far as I know, be modified by GCP without any problems. Another option would be The Iron Wind. Kingdom of the Desert Jewel would likely be the most difficult, due to Alliance influence in the general area.

Should one be successfully modified into an AP, it would then need to be seen if GCP would be interested in publishing it. Actually, it would be helpful to know this upfront.

This would be quite a major piece of work, even for several people. Making an AP at about the standard Paizo size would mean expanding the content from an existing module manyfold - such as around six times.
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Offline bpowell

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2016, 09:35:46 AM »
The "crowdsourcing" idea is a difficult one to pull off.  I have done it with several projects and it can work and work well.  I worked with the Living Greyhawk project when 3rd ed had just came out and we had some success.  Here are some things I learned during the project.

1)   A defined set of rules need to be established early.  This will define the tone and level structure for the project.  Since this is a series of interlinked modules it is assumed that the difficulty level increases slowly over the modules life.

2)  NPC Control - what are the NPCs in the arc and are they perpetual.  Each one that is perpetual required a defined background and motivation status.

3)  Overall Arc outline - This needs to be defined and agreed upon.

I would love this to go forward.  I bought The Iron Wind when it first came out (Yes, I am that old).  So it would be nostalgic to rework that into a AP.  It was rough and could easily be polished into a AP, since were was very little detail.

-BP

Offline B Hanson

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2016, 10:51:39 AM »
I like the idea of expanding/finishing the Grand Campaign. Terry could write some rough plot notes, sections could be broken up among participants and each section would be more modest (ie more achievable) than lengthy fleshed out modules. Plus the GC could track along with the SW books Terry is writing, creating a dual-property media project.
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Offline bpowell

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 11:00:57 AM »
If all involved were agreeable then it looks like there might be a rough plan.

-BP

Offline egdcltd

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 11:01:27 AM »
Yes, a set of rules upfront would be vital. Everything would need carefully considering first. Another factor would be the intention to make the finished work saleable, so some means of tracking individual contributors progress and input would need to be agreed at the beginning.

The Iron Wind could do with being brought up to the present day, SW time, which would be quite major in itself. Terry is reluctant to do this himself (and may be reluctant to have others do it too).

I had thought of the Grand Campaign, but I guess it didn't make it's way out of my head - or I forgot it overnight.
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Offline Terry K. Amthor

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 12:54:17 PM »
I'm all for the project. I'd want some minimal editorial control so that it didn't get too non-SW.

You are right; I am reluctant about IW. Most of it was written by Pete, and some by Olivia. While some of Pete's concepts have made it into SW, I would be reluctant to go in and revise much of their material—or have anyone else do it. (And I seriously doubt that either would be interested in updating their own material.)

The Grand Campaign, on the other hand, is fine with me; have at it! Actually the PDF does have very minimal notes for the 2nd and 3rd books. Very minimal. I'd be happy to try to help fill in the gaps, but it was written almost 25 years ago…

And before you get too excited, Nicholas would need to approve it—though he is eager to get more SW material out. He is unfortunately unavailable for the next week or so.
Terry K. Amthor
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 01:19:30 PM »
I'm interested as well- but reluctant until RMU is complete.  I believe that RMU & SW must be intertwined in a product like this.  To be effective the product must be used to demonstrate as many rules of RMU as possible; acting as a playable walk-through in some ways.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 03:14:58 PM »
I think that you could get a lot of work done though before you got to the point where you would definitely need to start integrating game mechanics.
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Offline bpowell

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 09:12:25 PM »
Terry,

I doubt anyone here is chomping at the bit to sit down and write tonight.  I thin if Nicholas gives permission for this project to go forward the group (who ever they may be) would need to come up with a plan and then a schedule.  Is there anywhere in the SW that is not too explored (forgive my ignorance). and we could run a AP of 1-5 level?

-BP

Offline egdcltd

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 03:38:09 AM »
I took a look at the Grand Campaign last night, and there would be a couple of problems if it was to be started on immediately. Actually, it's the same problem repeated several times. Various places visited in the campaign as it stands are where there are sourcebooks in development - Lethys, Haalkitaine, and I think the new Jaiman area that Terry is working on. If the campaign was to be continued, those parts of it that overlap would need to match up with whatever is in those, currently unreleased, sourcebooks (although there is the old version of Haalkitaine).
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Offline Terry K. Amthor

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2016, 05:21:46 AM »
I took a look at the Grand Campaign last night, and there would be a couple of problems if it was to be started on immediately. Actually, it's the same problem repeated several times. Various places visited in the campaign as it stands are where there are sourcebooks in development - Lethys, Haalkitaine, and I think the new Jaiman area that Terry is working on. If the campaign was to be continued, those parts of it that overlap would need to match up with whatever is in those, currently unreleased, sourcebooks (although there is the old version of Haalkitaine).

I'd be happy to work with the authors to resolve any potential conflicts. And realistically, the Haalkitaine revision is a ways off...
Terry K. Amthor
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2016, 08:23:18 AM »
So, what is the exact goal of this potential project?  A SW/RMU integrated product that will introduce players to RMU and SW simultaneously?
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Offline Terry K. Amthor

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2016, 08:37:41 AM »
So, what is the exact goal of this potential project?  A SW/RMU integrated product that will introduce players to RMU and SW simultaneously?

That would be exciting, and I bet Nicholas et al would love it.
Terry K. Amthor
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2016, 10:19:19 AM »
Well, I'd originally just thought of it as being a means to update some existing material and develop it into a form that is now rather widely known. But introducing RMU/SW would be good.
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Offline B Hanson

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2016, 06:06:35 PM »
I think finishing GC and adapting to RMU is a great idea!

1. Its mostly fleshed out and ties into Terry's novel.
2. The GC touches on all the meta threads of SW and encapsulates the "flavor" of the setting. (Quellborne feels like D&D)
3. GC hits all the great locations of SW that Terry has  written: Jaiman and Emer.
4. Highly cinematic, going from "low fantasy" to "high fantasy".
5. If finished, would represent HOURS of game play--"add-on" side adventures could be built in later
6. Taps into the current mixed-genre game setting popularity.
7. Being a contained adventure path, with pre-gen characters will be a great intro to RMU. (Like the original dd: "A" series) btw matt converted lthose to RM a few years back.

A few other thoughts on process

1. Create a private thread for contributors
2. Open outline for fleshing out path details
3. Assign chapters to individual authors
4. Terry/nicholas approval throughout
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2016, 04:59:04 AM »
I do have one concern in that the Grand Campaign might just be a little too epic for a first project. Regarding the science fiction elements of the setting, how would they be handled with RMU? Previously, they were Spacemaster, but I think it's going to be a while before there's RMU Spacemaster.

I wouldn't necessarily just assign one person to a chapter. There are quite a few different projects, not just adventures, that would go into creating a path. Paizo often use them to introduce new locations. Keifers Landing appears in both the Grand Campaign and Quellbourne, so that could be developed out into a more fleshed-out location, as it's currently quite minimalistic (one thing I don't like in Quellbourne is the Ice Krals; they are too reminiscent of D&D's habit of introducing brand new intelligent species that are never seen elsewhere and lack a viable breeding population).
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Offline Terry K. Amthor

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2016, 05:29:39 AM »
Grand Campaign is ambitious to start with... it has SF elements? I don't remember. I agree with egdcltd about Quellbourne, though there are other races in SW where a race is isolated to a few locations.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2016, 05:34:17 AM »
I'm not actually sure if GC has scifi elements or not without taking a longer look at it, but it seems quite likely it may have, if not now then by the time its completed, if the intent is to introduce the full depth of Shadow World.

The Saurkaur (probably not spelled right) from Islands of the Oracle are similarly limited in location to the Ice Krals, but there's a good reason for that, which is explained, and makes sense. As do the Krylites, for similar reasons.
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Offline Terry K. Amthor

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2016, 08:48:53 AM »
I'm not actually sure if GC has scifi elements or not without taking a longer look at it, but it seems quite likely it may have, if not now then by the time its completed, if the intent is to introduce the full depth of Shadow World.

The Saurkaur (probably not spelled right) from Islands of the Oracle are similarly limited in location to the Ice Krals, but there's a good reason for that, which is explained, and makes sense. As do the Krylites, for similar reasons.

(slightly O/T) Working on Emer IV, I am also finally getting to detail some actual cultures of a couple of odd races I put in Atlas III: the Rasha-ai, and the Synshari.
Terry K. Amthor
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Offline bpowell

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Re: Crowdsourcing an Adventure Path?
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2016, 10:55:49 AM »
Grand Campaign is ambitious to start with... it has SF elements? I don't remember. I agree with egdcltd about Quellbourne, though there are other races in SW where a race is isolated to a few locations.

I agree with Terry.  First I think we might look at some new material for the RMU/SW project.  The Grand Campaign is VERY ambitious.  If we get some good material out there, some of it specifically for the newcomer we might help sales of both RM and SW.  I look at the popularity of Pathfinder and ask "Why?" 

Looking at it from a non-gamer purely business model the idea was sound.  First, they had a known product (The used the 3.5 model) and had a base to draw from for stories.  The fan base was able to bring new people in and those people brought in more story ideas.  While I have had good and bad experiences in some of the Paizo material, most of it had value.

If we take only an existing project we might lose some of the exposure to new people.  The reason for this IMO is that some of the SW material is written at a very high fantasy level.  There is no basis for the characters to latch on too.  Also in some of the "introductory" material we might need to write instructions for the newby GM.  Again IMO.

-BP