Author Topic: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?  (Read 1942 times)

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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« on: October 31, 2017, 03:03:56 AM »
Do you make morale checks for NPC enemies?
lots of modifiers could be used for this such as
outnumbered 2-1
outnumbered 3-1
outnumbered 4-1
lightly wounded
heavily wounded
persuasion/intimidation
etc

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 06:48:22 AM »
I had to do that this weekend.  The group (five level 5 PCs) were facing off against ten level 3 NPC's with  +50ss, AT 4, DB 5.  They should have mopped the decks with them, but every player was rolling poorly and all the crit rolls they made were no higher than 27.  It was just a horrible set of dice rolling for everyone.   One NPC open-ended twice and rolled high on the Krush crit and shattered the elbow of the weapon arm for the only tank in the group.

Two players and an elemental squared off on the NPC captain and actually killed him from HP loss!  (+25da, AT 1, DB 5)   I didn't want a TPK, so I gave a morale check to the NPCs, one of the players rolled Intimidation and it was decent enough that the crews just stopped fighting once they saw their captain go down.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
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Offline Sable Wyvern

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 07:28:07 AM »
Eyeball situation. Pick a chance of fleeing/withdrawal. Roll dice.

I don't bother with fixed mods.

Offline jdale

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 12:19:45 PM »
I handle it like Sable Wyvern.

RMU has rules for it and I could see using them for player allies, especially if the players are likely to try to rally them, but otherwise I would just handle it off the cuff.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 12:24:35 PM »
ok cool. so no need for intimidation roll from the pcs?

Offline jdale

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 01:21:28 PM »
If a PC was actively trying to intimidate the enemy, I might look to the rules. I've never had that happen. I had a PC bamboozle a group of ambushers (he ended up giving them a lesson in how to properly set up an ambush, but they let the party through without trouble), but that's as close as they've gotten.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 01:25:17 PM »
ok cool. so no need for intimidation roll from the pcs?

No, not at all.   I just wanted it to look good.  I didn't want to players to think I just stopped the battle because they were getting creamed.  They were going to try Diplomacy but Intimidation seemed better since it was a battle and they wanted to break moral and one player's Intimidation skill was higher than the other's Diplomacy skill.  Intimidation just seemed to fit really well so we went with it.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Hurin

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 05:03:30 PM »
I handle it like JDale and Sable Wyvern. I don't have fixed modifiers, but I do adjust the number needed to succeed depending on the situation.

One of the things I stress is that creatures -- whether monsters or NPCs -- are real creatures, not robots. Creatures rarely fight to the death: no one wants to die. If an orc and four of his buddies encounter a group of enemies (PCs) and after two rounds (10 seconds in RMU), the orc sees two of his buddies dead and another badly wounded, he is not going to fight to the death unless I roll open ended high on his morale check. Humans behave in the same way. Rarely does a military unit suffer heavy casualties in a short span of time and not have at least some of its members retreat or flee. I dislike campaigns where every enemy fights to the death, as it is not at all realistic.

It also helps to speed the game along if creatures retreat, and you don't have to play out every battle to the last hit point.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

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Offline jdale

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 05:34:34 PM »
I had a recent battle in a situation where the nobles would be ransomed (if not killed), so after the enemy leader surrendered, all of his troops did as well. They knew the rules of war meant they would be disarmed and eventually freed, so why keep fighting? It's not even a morale issue at that point, they had already lost according to the rules of engagement.

It also helps to speed the game along if creatures retreat, and you don't have to play out every battle to the last hit point.

And on the other side, withdrawal doesn't only go with retreating. It may go with victory, depending on the creature's motivations. For example, the party was encamped for the night and were confronted with something like a mountain lion. It fought defensively, which confused them until they realized its unnoticed mate on the opposite side of the camp was dragging off a backpack that contained food. I'm not sure any damage was actually sustained in the battle by either side, except to the backpack which was savaged. (Partial contents were eventually recovered after they tracked it down.)
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 06:38:44 PM »
I handle it like JDale and Sable Wyvern. I don't have fixed modifiers, but I do adjust the number needed to succeed depending on the situation.

One of the things I stress is that creatures -- whether monsters or NPCs -- are real creatures, not robots. Creatures rarely fight to the death: no one wants to die. If an orc and four of his buddies encounter a group of enemies (PCs) and after two rounds (10 seconds in RMU), the orc sees two of his buddies dead and another badly wounded, he is not going to fight to the death unless I roll open ended high on his morale check. Humans behave in the same way. Rarely does a military unit suffer heavy casualties in a short span of time and not have at least some of its members retreat or flee. I dislike campaigns where every enemy fights to the death, as it is not at all realistic.

It also helps to speed the game along if creatures retreat, and you don't have to play out every battle to the last hit point.

Excellent point. I think i have been guilty of playing out battles to the end in the past. as you say, thats not realistic unless they have a reason to stay and fight. groups of thugs for example rely on numbers to overwhelm and force enemies to surrender so they take less losses themselves.

i have a large party of npcs and pcs who are about to embark on a raiding mission into an enemy base. There are 25 fighters in the group. They will be facing a force of 15-20 enemies although if the pcs team split their main force it will be closer to 10v10 with another 6-8 in reserve.
Battles this large can be tedious so overwhelming and routing the enemy is something i would be greatly in favour of however the reverse is true if the assault fails and the pcs team (s) will be beating a hasty retreat themselves.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2017, 06:26:49 AM »
Has anyone used War Law?  It's the one book I don't have for RM2.  I would imagine it handles morale checks for larger battles. 
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Peter R

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2017, 07:41:15 AM »
ok cool. so no need for intimidation roll from the pcs?

No, not at all.   I just wanted it to look good.  I didn't want to players to think I just stopped the battle because they were getting creamed.  They were going to try Diplomacy but Intimidation seemed better since it was a battle and they wanted to break moral and one player's Intimidation skill was higher than the other's Diplomacy skill.  Intimidation just seemed to fit really well so we went with it.

Unless you have changed the nature of the Diplomacy skill then Intimidation is definitely the right skill to use!

Diplomacy: (Pr/In) Bonus for operating successfully in a complex,
bureaucratic environment, such as a royal court or any other large
government structure. Tact, negotiation, and deceit are all facets of
diplomacy.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2017, 08:15:41 AM »

Unless you have changed the nature of the Diplomacy skill then Intimidation is definitely the right skill to use!

Diplomacy: (Pr/In) Bonus for operating successfully in a complex,
bureaucratic environment, such as a royal court or any other large
government structure. Tact, negotiation, and deceit are all facets of
diplomacy.

They were squaring off against a pirate captain and his crew in a very tense situation while using "aggressive diplomacy" in what could have been described (loosely) as the pirate captain's court.  Tact, negotiation, and deceit were all in play, particularly on the part of the players.  The pirate crew was actually being completely honest with the PCs LOL.  Diplomacy would have worked in that situation as well.  I was giving the players the highest possible chance to succeed and I would have taken which ever skill was higher.  I just wanted them to get out of it alive.  They were seriously considering taking on a battle of 19 vs. 4.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Affliction

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2017, 03:30:50 PM »
Has anyone used War Law?  It's the one book I don't have for RM2.  I would imagine it handles morale checks for larger battles. 

I created a morale table based on War Law for use at a party level. I just give an encounter a 'Morale Rating' when creating it and go from there.

For skills like 'Intimidation' and similar, I just shift the column to reflect how well the players did intimidating the opponent.


I attached a link to the document if you want to take a look. It is pretty self explanatory.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xkifpfk5anu6lq/Morale%20Table.pdf?dl=0

Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2017, 11:18:29 PM »
nice! thanks for sharing.

Offline Affliction

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2017, 11:46:15 PM »
As a note, we do use 'milestone/tollgate' leveling based on story line.


So by ending a combat early the players don't lose out on any experience since it isn't tracked, and we get more time to adventure and less time fighting unneeded combats.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Do you make morale checks for your npc enemies?
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2017, 12:03:46 AM »
Thanks very much for posting that, Affliction! I might post it onto my GM screen!
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle