Author Topic: Developer's Journal  (Read 70182 times)

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Offline Quasar

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2006, 04:46:20 PM »
Also, how many of you would be interested in POD versions, at a normal printed book price, if you could get the pdfs for 3-5 dollars?  Tell me for which system too (HARP, RM or d20)

Just curious.  With the Pod Versions, you might have to download and print the maps if you want big game-table versions.

Given its an adventure series and one which is using CC for maps, I'm not sure how keen I am at the moment to buy a print version.

With small adventure books I don't have quite as much of a need for the paper version as I do for rulebooks or sourcebooks or larger books (like say bigger than 96-128 page or so chunks).

Though I'll still want a collected edition at the end. Preferably hardcover.

As for system...whilst I'm using a tweaked version of HARP now, I would also like to see RMSS/RMFRP stats. I have no interest in RM2 or d20 though.

One thing I am wondering is if the PDF series is going to be formatted for B&W or colour printers. Thats one issue for me given I only have a B&W laser.

Offline markc

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2006, 05:19:34 PM »
Grafton,
 In the US we occasionaly hear stories of 10 people living in a room.

 It is ok to write things after comming back from the bar...but it is better if you are in a position where you cannnot write things after you come back from the bar. Either because of social resposcibilties or chemical influence. (Joke)

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Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2006, 01:48:23 AM »
Quasar, just to make sure it's clear, they are sourcebook/adventure bundles, but the sourcebooks will probably have a heftier page count in all the porducts.  Not trying to talk you out of your decision.  :)  For instance, I'm PROMISSING 32 pages in each the sourcebook and the adventure, but I'm GUESSING it will average more like 64 pages of sourcebook and 48 of adventure.  Since they are primarily PDF, I'm not worried about giving more info if its there (unless it screws up the proportion of the product, like my problems with the history section in the main book).  As an example, the first adventure is about 48 or 50 pages.  The second is not close enough to final format to guess.  The Third is 48 pages NOW, and it's only descriptions, stats and rough notes.  I expect it to hit 64 and the sourcebook might go over.

Excepting maps and the cover, I don't expect any color artwork or formatting.
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Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2006, 01:50:59 AM »
Quote of the evening from the playtest, courtesy of GerikGnome.  Upon finding the main bad guy's wardrobe:

"Okay!  Who wants Ulcer Clothes!"
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Llewelyn

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2006, 08:37:07 PM »
Quote of the evening from the playtest, courtesy of GerikGnome.  Upon finding the main bad guy's wardrobe:

That isn't were you put that door you were talking about is it? Though that might have been very funny if it was. :o

Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2006, 12:16:14 AM »
No.  :)

Okay, now back to public conversations.  :)
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Smiling DM

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2006, 08:52:31 AM »
Also, how many of you would be interested in POD versions, at a normal printed book price, if you could get the pdfs for 3-5 dollars?  Tell me for which system too (HARP, RM or d20)
Not familiar with the 'POD' concept (Print on Demand??), so can't answer that part.

Based on other posts where you think the pdf's will be around 96 pages (combined Sourcebook + adventure), I think a $3-5 price for a pdf is very fair.  I recently paid $9 for a 40 page pdf, and while the quality of the product was fine, I felt as a consumer a little gipped - at that price/page, a 192-page book would price out at $36 - which is the current average price for an average dead-tree RPG product today.

As to system, I would be interested in Harp and RM primarily (and if I had to choose, HARP), and not very interested in D20 - I understand you are trying to serve a broad market, and commend your thinking.  But I doubt you will see much interest from this crowd in a D20 version since it is an ICE forum  ;)

On the issue of game system, which is the rule-set you are using in play-test? 

My reason for asking is that I feel the game system we as gamers use in our games brings a flavor to the style of the worlds we use.  As your play-test is essentially setting the 'canon' for the setting, I see some challenges in maintaining the original flavor you are creating if you then port it to two other systems.  I'm not looking to debate the pros/cons of the individual systems - I'm sure there is a flame-war thread for that somewhere else.  I'm interested in how you are approaching the challenge as a developer.

Offline PENDRAGON

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2006, 01:01:42 PM »
Also, how many of you would be interested in POD versions, at a normal printed book price, if you could get the pdfs for 3-5 dollars?  Tell me for which system too (HARP, RM or d20)

$3-5 is fine by me, I'm in the UK and would buy all you're PDF's as they were released and then wait until 2 or three were available in POD and buy in bulk (so to speak). I'd be interested in HARP. PDF's are handy and you get the product sooner but I don't tend to print them out. If I do I use a professional firm which then discourages me buying it again in POD.   

As a matter of interest (not that I'm fishing) but do you plan to release them 1 at a time (as and when ready) or two of the product line at once (you seem pretty far along), and how much time would you envisage between each product release. 

Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2006, 03:11:07 PM »
Smiling DM.  I feel that RM is the system that's hardest to balance properly so the first test of every product is in RM.  We played the world in the fourth system for over a year before we started the company though, and HARP in RM are closely wedded, so I feel the only system that is really a port is d20.
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Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2006, 03:12:07 PM »
That's not a negative comment on RM, BTW.  Its just the most complex so it takes the steadiest hand.
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Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2006, 03:18:25 PM »
Pendragon,

Since they are paired products, they will release in their paired bundles (one source book and one adventure together).  If you consider that pair one single product (which we really do), then we will be releasing them one at a time.

We're only REALLY far along in the adventures, that first sourcebook is a bear to write.  The reason we are so far along in the adventures is that we need to be.  One of my favorite people in the world and a king of serialized storytelling Howard Taylor (www.schlockmercenary.com) once told me that if I was going to write an adventure SERIES, I better have at least three in the bag before the first hit print.  He's absolutely right and I took that advice to heart.

Anyway, we playtest a new one about every other month, so it moves forward without much help.  Deadlines are a dark an hungry god.
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Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2006, 07:57:31 PM »
Oh!  Pendragon.  I forgot to say, I'm shooting for two months between releases.  When the company make enough money I can quit my job and go to one month, but with my other writing obligations, that would be 2-4k words a day and I can't QUITE gauntee that much (it can take 6-8 to do if there's a heavy stating requirement, and that doesn't include all the business end stuff like art wrangling and PR and pagemaking.)  Not without a burn out.
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Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2006, 07:57:48 PM »
02/01/06

   Hmmm.  Lets see.  Where to start this week?  Probably at the play test, so I don?t get in trouble again.
   Things went well.  They covered a lot of ground and finished act two of the adventure.  There were a couple of moments that creeped them out, and that was good.  One of them I didn?t expect at all, so that was a pleasant surprise.  They got to the climax about four and a half hours before the deadline, although they think (until reading this, at least) that they got there just in the nick of time.  No problem with that.
   So next week we finish the third adventure, for better or worse.  Big act three fight, should be fun.  I?m curious to see how it all plays out and if they do anything that will result in total party kill. :)
   On the writing front I went through and assigned all the major world stuff to various countries.  This includes things like wonders of the world, headquarters of church orders and demon cults, secret societies, and colleges (the ones that I know about at any rate.  There are universities that will be general places of learning that will come up as I write the individual nation descriptions.)  Then I wrote up the first two nations.  This was a bit of a breakthrough because I?d dreading it but it actually worked out to be pretty fun.  At the current average word count, the gazetteer chapter will be 40-60 pages.  That might be long enough that I don?t have to use a butchered history chapter.
   But that couldn?t last.  LTUE (Life the Universe and Everything)  is coming up at BYU.  I need to run demos there, so I spent Monday night putting that together.  I think it will play pretty well, but I?m still a touch concerned about the ending.  The demo is actually the teaser from the first adventure and it has gone over gangbusters in playtest, but in the first adventure you get to the end and then segue straight into Act One.  (Like with a television episode, after the commercial break).  The people discover everything that is going on slowly, sometimes painfully.  As it stands at the end of the demo, I just had to write a little speech that explains it, otherwise, the cliffhanger at the end will leave them wondering what just happened (great for a cliff hanger, terrible for a demo).  I?m not sure if that will have the same dramatic impact.  Still, I don?t have a better idea for the demo, so we?ll see how it plays out.  It will be alright, I just don?t have the same level of confidence as I do of the first adventure as a whole.  Might take a rewrite or two before I get it just right.
   That was the RM version.  I?m almost done with the HARP conversion (I just have to design the one new monster in HARP).  That leaves me with d20.  After doing the d20 Shadow World conversion, I could do that in my sleep.  I?ve turned it over to my business partner to do the conversion to our fourth license, the one I haven?t been able to announce yet, and he assures me it will be done in plenty of time.
   Speaking of that, Tuesday morning was a good day, so good in fact that I couldn?t sleep until after 2 in the afternoon.  In the morning, we received approval on our fourth license.  As soon as our contracts are cut I?ll announce that.  I also received a pass from the profantasy people on my world map.  I was waiting on this because they were hesitant to do any cross promotion until they saw if my mapping skills sucked.  Evidently, they didn?t. :) I wasn?t worried on this one about the approval, I?m a mapping savant, :) I just was afraid that with CC3 in the works I wouldn?t get approved until WAY too late to do any good.  There are a lot of CC2 users out there.  That?s a big market.
   On a personal note, I had my best first rejection from a pro magazine ever (actually, it?s probably tied for best.)  Hitchcock?s.  So, things are happy in the old Defendi casa.
   Hmmm.  Anything else?
   Oh!  I found out that Costco has about the best printing prices I?ve ever seen (for single posters).  Their photo department will print a 20x30 poster for 9.99.  I need to get the main map printed by them in time for LTUE.  I?d looked into other places, but there had been no one I could afford in the time allotted (I?m budgeted pretty tight due to travel costs and restaurants and demo disk production.  I?m taking a fiction editor from WotC out to lunch, probably on the first day.)
   Okay.  I think that?s it.  Unless one of the play testers tell me I?ve forgotten something.
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Offline GerikGnome

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2006, 11:45:16 PM »
I still say we got there at the dramatically appropriate time.  And it couldn't have turned out any other way.

Though I am looking forward to the fight.  I really don't see how it can turn out any other way than total party kill.  But it'll be interesting to find out whether they get us or...well...I do.  Yes, very interesting indeed. 

Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2006, 12:11:37 AM »
So tune in next week fokes to see if gerikgnome stacks as many penlties on himself as possible in an attempt to spell fail by so much he actually goes thermonuclear.

. . .
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Offline Quasar

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2006, 06:28:52 AM »
   That was the RM version.  I’m almost done with the HARP conversion (I just have to design the one new monster in HARP).  That leaves me with d20.  After doing the d20 Shadow World conversion, I could do that in my sleep.  I’ve turned it over to my business partner to do the conversion to our fourth license, the one I haven’t been able to announce yet, and he assures me it will be done in plenty of time.

One wonders what system that could be. Myself...I'd be rather interested in seeing Unisystem stats for it.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2006, 06:34:39 AM »
Quasar, just to make sure it's clear, they are sourcebook/adventure bundles, but the sourcebooks will probably have a heftier page count in all the porducts.  Not trying to talk you out of your decision.  :) 

:)

The main aspect in my decisions over PDF vs paper is simply printing costs (toner cartridges aren't cheap) and whether the product is more of a reference work where having it on a stack of print outs is more annoying compared to an actual book (as I found trying to play harp with a stack of printouts).

Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2006, 09:33:29 AM »
Quasar, just to make sure it's clear, they are sourcebook/adventure bundles, but the sourcebooks will probably have a heftier page count in all the porducts.  Not trying to talk you out of your decision.  :)

:)

The main aspect in my decisions over PDF vs paper is simply printing costs (toner cartridges aren't cheap) and whether the product is more of a reference work where having it on a stack of print outs is more annoying compared to an actual book (as I found trying to play harp with a stack of printouts).

When I'm actually playing ... I hate a printout that takes more than 2 pages at most ... they get lost too easily. When I'm comming up with the next adventure /etc - I prefer PDFs that I can search and use in the creative process.

What I'd REALLY want to see is a CD (or unique link to a licensed PDF or some similar scheme) to enable any person who has bought the printed version to be able to access the PDF version for no additional cost (or a minimal cost).

Similarly - someone who has paid full-cost for the PDF should get a discount on the cost of the printed version if that is the order they chose to get the titles ... (essentialy just paying for the book to be printed out and shipped ... they have already paid for the IP - admittedly in PDF form).

Don't know if this is easy to implement - but is something that ICE and other companies need to gun for ...

Cormac

Offline Grafton

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2006, 09:19:17 PM »
A few things Defendi:

Are the adventures your writing linear or do they allow for "other activities"? I admit that it may not be a big deal for me in a new world since I'm running a canned adventure with the Powers & Perils game I'm running on rpgrm.com. But that publication also has tons of options for other adventures. Just wondering how you are handing this.

Maps in CC2? Awesome! ;D You know I'm interested. Congrats on getting it sanctioned. I saw you post on the mapping thread here, I'd be interested in what comments you might have about the maps I posted links to - they are my first attempt at public mapping ???

Good Luck, Grafton

Offline Defendi

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Re: Developer's Journal
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2006, 04:47:37 AM »
Cormac, are prcing structure is pretty minimal as it is.  Since we are looking to use Lulu or a company like it, I don't see any practical way to attach the purchase of one to another.  We'll keep it in mind, though, in case one comes up.
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