Author Topic: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?  (Read 2409 times)

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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« on: November 06, 2015, 09:50:36 PM »
DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?

if so, how much? what system?
do you have training schools or gladiator type schools or guilds?
in your campaign, is level advancement free?

Online B Hanson

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2015, 11:04:38 AM »
We use 3 methods for skill advancement (we use unlimited skill advancement):

1. 10% of total skill ranks can be increased natural which represents general practice in a skill that a PC already has. Therefore no added cost.

2. Teaching. Another PC can train a skill up to 20% of their skill ranks or a percentage equal to Vocation: Teaching.

3. New Skills. Any new skill must be taught to the PC. NPC's charge Rank squared by 1sp to 1gp for cost. Variation on cost is based on the rarity of the skill. Magic, subterfuge, poison, alchemy is on the higher end and is controlled and transmitted by organizations, guilds, groups etc. Requiring PC's to join groups or guilds also is a easy way to create adventure motivations.

I utilize quite a few money sinks--otherwise after a while treasure hauls lose their sense of reward. Training costs, equipment breakage and consumable magic are our most common.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2015, 07:18:33 PM »
We use 3 methods for skill advancement (we use unlimited skill advancement):

1. 10% of total skill ranks can be increased natural which represents general practice in a skill that a PC already has. Therefore no added cost.

2. Teaching. Another PC can train a skill up to 20% of their skill ranks or a percentage equal to Vocation: Teaching.

3. New Skills. Any new skill must be taught to the PC. NPC's charge Rank squared by 1sp to 1gp for cost. Variation on cost is based on the rarity of the skill. Magic, subterfuge, poison, alchemy is on the higher end and is controlled and transmitted by organizations, guilds, groups etc. Requiring PC's to join groups or guilds also is a easy way to create adventure motivations.

I utilize quite a few money sinks--otherwise after a while treasure hauls lose their sense of reward. Training costs, equipment breakage and consumable magic are our most common.

i like ur system. its logical that new and rare or unusual skills will cost more to train in them. I also think that players needs something to sink there hard earnt cash into other than stockpiling it to buy the best weapons and armour. when u think about it like this, charging a monetary cost to increase certain skills encourages them to treasure hunt/accept jobs to pay for their next level up.

Offline yammahoper

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2015, 10:27:18 PM »
it varies . i use cost for spell books right out of Essence Companion. my single constant is time required, which is  calculated when necessary using a table in RMSS.

sometimes a teaching or learning roll is required. it organic imo.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2015, 11:58:52 PM »
it varies . i use cost for spell books right out of Essence Companion. my single constant is time required, which is  calculated when necessary using a table in RMSS.

sometimes a teaching or learning roll is required. it organic imo.

i dont have Essence Companion. can u post up/pm me the rule for spell books?

Offline Peter R

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2015, 05:57:35 AM »
I have never done this. The way I see it is that the characters are actually constantly improving and evolving. It is just the game rules that breaks this up into level size chunks. My players have already roleplayed trying to find teachers and practicing skills or whatever is necessary long before the leveling actually takes place.
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Offline jdale

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2015, 11:15:48 AM »
In our RMSS game, the GM requires that we are taught new spells and new skills, but not for improving existing skills. There are not a lot of skills that no one in the party has, and there is even some spell teaching within the party, but occasionally we have to go outside the party. E.g. the fighter did find a cavalry trainer to learn mounted combat, and my character needed a teacher to learn a weapon kata. The cavalry trainer did cost money, but also became a new contact for the group (a retired knight). The kata did not cost money, since it was through existing contacts, but in a sense was paid for by my character training a bunch of other students in more basic martial arts techniques (so for a couple weeks he came in battered and bruised every day), really just as narrative (we were in fast time).

We have spent much of the campaign traveling, so it would have been challenging if such lessons were needed every level. For spells, we allow players to purchase a spell with DP but even after leveling they can't actually use it until it's taught. That gives some flexibility about when the lessons actually occur.
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Offline markc

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2015, 02:32:57 PM »
I do much like JDale does but I also say that if you are experiencing those skill areas you might be able to buy them, ie being on a ship might allow you to buy sailing or ships pilot. But it depends on what the PC is doing in their off time, so if they say they are trying to learn sailing then that is fine. The player cannot just say when it is time to level up that I want to learn sailing because 5 months ago he was on a ship.
I have also started to do a training package of skills that IMO relate(ed) to the adventure and or adventure section I am running (which is much easier to do as I generally handout DP and let them spend them at the 30% exp mark). This provides a discount on those skills that they would have commonly experienced and provides the limit of 10 ranks just like other TP skills 



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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2015, 07:30:33 AM »
DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
Short answer: We don't.

Offline Dreven1

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2016, 01:45:35 AM »
We don't use it, I tried it for about 6 months and it bogged down the game so much we threw it out. Same with finding someone to teach spells, advanced herbalism, etc.  So, everything is learned while the PC is adventuring. They pick up the skills along the way. Once a new level is earned that means the character has enough knowledge in the skill they were developing to use it.
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Offline bpowell

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 09:44:54 AM »
We use a very modified version of this.  During the sessions I loosely keep track of what they are doing to advance.  Like if they are trying to advance in a blacksmithing skill did they visit the local forge, etc.   For physical skills I allow then to advance without an instructor, just pay the time and any material costs associated with it (feathers for fletching arrows, metal to make a sword, etc)  For mental skills I just ensure they have the facilities to do this (a library, or at least the books).

To learn a new skill I have them visit a trainer in one of the cities that dot the world.  Since I run a bit of downtime between adventures this is just a note in the session ("I am heading to the Archers here in town to talk about why my fletching is an issue")  Or finding a trainer ("I am looking for some one to teach me the Lore of Demons, is there someone in town?")  Then it is just a financial transaction in the character sheet and *BANG* a new skill.

But mostly it is a mentioning in a session and a financial transaction on the sheet and done.  But in the past I have used it as a plot hook, ("Bob, there is not a person in town that knows anything about Left-handed basket weaving.  But in the city a few days from here there is a person doing that art form.")

Just a method to keep things moving in the game.

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Offline tbigness

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 11:51:46 AM »
this depends on the setting. IF it is a skill unknown then yes or a spell list unknown then yes otherwise they are just improving on skills that are already known. the trainer must have at least 10 ranks in the skill in order to teach it, so players trying to teach the skill to other PC's will fall into that category.
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Offline Voriig Kye

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 05:06:34 PM »
I let them gain whatever except Lores and Languages, which are harder to acquire and requires them to find books or a teacher (or another party member with more ranks).

They can also buy ranks in any Base, Open same realm or Closed same realm Spell List. I would love to restrict that since it makes no sense to me that a magician suddenly can use fire without consulting a book if they had no previous ranks in the list, but my group is not interested in that rule... :(

Offline Peter R

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 03:01:08 AM »
They can also buy ranks in any Base, Open same realm or Closed same realm Spell List. I would love to restrict that since it makes no sense to me that a magician suddenly can use fire without consulting a book if they had no previous ranks in the list, but my group is not interested in that rule... :(
For spell list acquisition I use the original core rule of just the spell ranks with no stat bonus of any kind on the roll. This makes learning spell lists expensive and relatively slow. Most pure spell users in my game spend 12 to 15 DP on spell lists each level which then equates to on average two spell lists or spell list parts every three levels. The flipside of that is that there is no prerequisits on learning the lists and they can be learned just by the practice of shapig raw magic or some such.

The optional rule of adding your realm stat bonus to the SLA roll came with the requirement that the lists had to be found and then taught as a way of balancing out the increased ease of learning.

When I have been playing under GMs that allow you to add your realm stat bonus to the SLA, never has one restricted me from learning a list.
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Offline sunwolf

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 05:30:21 PM »
In general I don't use Training costs or time, but might make an exception for learning a completely new skill, especially if no one in the group has it.  Mostly though I don't because it gets in the way of rule #1 Have Fun
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Offline RickInVA

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Re: DMs! Do you charge training costs for level advancement?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2016, 12:26:01 AM »
In general I don't use Training costs or time, but might make an exception for learning a completely new skill, especially if no one in the group has it.  Mostly though I don't because it gets in the way of rule #1 Have Fun

I'm all for having fun, but as a player I get a lot more enjoyment from achieving something that is difficult.  Kind of the whole, you appreciate it more if you have to work for it, thing.  The groups I have played with all share that idea to one level or another. 

For teaching within the group we generally played that a PC could teach another PC any of their spell lists (assuming they were willing to do so).  For skills the teacher could pass along up to 1/2 of their skill ranks, beyond that the cost was x1.5 up to the level of the teacher.  Some things we felt you could "teach yourself", like region lore for where you were, tracking, stalk/hide, etc.  If a PC wanted to learn about something non-experiential, like advanced mathematics, we required a teacher or text.  If text then the text would have a limit, i.e. Jupoir on Mathematics would take you up to rank 5.

The search for teachers or texts provided a good basis for a lot of adventures.