Topic: Skill rank limitations

[Sewercop]

First session done, long fun game.
some questions did arise..

-In the book it says skill ranks have a max limitations(a hard cap) of (lvl x3)+3. That we do understand but we have a follow up question....

Do adolescent ranks and cultural ranks count toward that limit?
or can you have 6 ranks at first lvl + adolescent and cultural ranks?
we have our opinion, but we would rather hear it from the source

-The scout has an option called Intuition, but its nowhere to be found in the book

-The pdf differs a bit from the book, for exsample.. the charm skill is not listed in the pdf.

-The trading skill, if used with modifiers can give a character really cheap goods. Unless all you trade with have insane skills, wich then can give insane prices for the char to pay.

For now the most important are to get an answer about the skill ranks... Since we started on lvl 1 it can have some impact. On later lvls it does not matter that much.

We did enjoy the game, next session are saturday. Will try to post a more comprehensive post before that, and one after that.
Btw, like the fact that space piloting and combat are more a group effort then mostly solo like other games. Makes us, at least me, consider accepting a spacecraft into the group lol.

Game on

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

It is intended to be a hard limit - note that some talents allow the limit to evaded - Artistic Prodigy, Knowledgeable Authority.

Intuition was deleted as a talent and should have been removed from the Scout as well. If you don't like any of the others, you can award two instances of Multiple Subskill Proficiency.

Regarding the Charm skill, please redownload the pdf from OneBookShelf. There was a last-minute adjustment to the book just before printing to expand the Influence category. The pdf was updated at the same time.

Do note that many places have a set price and no matter how good your Trading is, the price of goods is fixed.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Sewercop]

Thanks,
cant ask for a more direct source then the name on the book

Since there hasnt been more then a bomb or two in our face and only one instance of us gunning down some assasins trying to paint the outer sides of our transport vessel with some demolitions paint ala da vinci its hard to say some definate about combat yet

Most likely we will experience that next time.. Its fun to play with lethal gms

Ill try make the others give theyre opinion on gameplay. Heck, id like to see how others in this forum builds characters and apply skills...

Regards
 

[markc]

Sewercop,
 You might want to start a new topic and see if people will post there PC's for you to take a look at. I expect to see some more games of HARP SF arise here in the states after this Friday and Prometheus coming out in theaters.
MDC

[Sewercop]

Prometheus looks promising.

Ill see what i can strongarm the rest of the group into posting.
If a forum is active, at least the main forum for the game, the more gamers it seems to attract.
And, having the lead designer answering questions in a fast manner helps alot.

Builds,rules questions(rules arguments, i see creating chars as a minigame, sue me ) , erratas on rulings, sharing of ideas and houserules garners more interest then one should think. Even if only one in a hundred or less post.

I have forgotten one thing.. that would prob be a post in near future.. This game emulates Star Wars very good. At least some of the psionic.. Heck refluff the description of the powers and its a wrap.

I digress..

regards

[Ynglaur]

One other exception is the Nomad culture, which gets 10 ranks in Riding: Horseback.

[Sewercop]

One other exception is the Nomad culture, which gets 10 ranks in Riding: Horseback.

I have never seen the nomad culture in harp scifi. If you refer to "regular" harp i dont have the books in front of me.
Anyways, if they have a exsample of cultire going past 6 ranks thats just breaking the rules.
As of now, culture only exsist to grab skills out of your favored catagories.

As caldwell himslef stated, its intended to be a hard cap. And the rules back it up. Now.. That means they are useless mostly, except for grabbing skills in disfavored catagories. 
If you have a culture giving more then 6 ranks its bad. The customizing cultures says it can never be more then 3 in a single skill. 

The page before gives exsample of tier 4 biokinetic fields for stats..(+20 qu), that dont excist in the game.. Its just wrong, probably a remnant from betatesting. Thats my guess on nomads as well.. A fault..
If not, you open up for ten ranks in comp operations, combat skills etc..

Then next step opens.. can i purchase more ranks in my 10 ranks riding? no.. you are by default never ever gonna be better at riding at 2nd lvl then you were at first. You never improve riding skill until lvl 3 lol
What if i am human? bonus 5 skill ranks? where do those go..
The limitations on skill ranks says suck it.. Not to mention that a lvl 1 character with ten ranks are impossible by the rules. Unless cybernetics,robots or ais

If we are going the old rolemaster gets referred in spacemaster route..
Let me tell you how broken magical ritual was in spacemaster using rolemaster rules   doodoo just hit the fan

Options are good, but some options should be labeld trap.
Knowledge package or a mainframe with archives in a robot?

[GrumpyOldFart]

As caldwell himslef stated, its intended to be a hard cap. And the rules back it up. Now.. That means they are useless mostly, except for grabbing skills in disfavored catagories.

I wouldn't call them useless. I'd say they perform a "rounding out the character" function that the player doesn't have to pay for. So far as I can tell, the idea is to place limits on your character's ignorance. Anyone can have up to 6 ranks in anything at 1st level, it's all a matter of whether or not you're willing to spend the DPs. But there aren't going to be any nomadic tribesmen with ZERO knowledge of the kinds of animals they use.

[Sewercop]

As caldwell himslef stated, its intended to be a hard cap. And the rules back it up. Now.. That means they are useless mostly, except for grabbing skills in disfavored catagories.

I wouldn't call them useless. I'd say they perform a "rounding out the character" function that the player doesn't have to pay for. So far as I can tell, the idea is to place limits on your character's ignorance. Anyone can have up to 6 ranks in anything at 1st level, it's all a matter of whether or not you're willing to spend the DPs. But there aren't going to be any nomadic tribesmen with ZERO knowledge of the kinds of animals they use.

Thats correct. Why? because he is from the nomad culture that has a given set of ranks............. Then again i might be wrong. I have yet to see the nomad culture, and since they are (atleast by harp scifi rules) illegal, i would not be surprised if they didnt give any ranks in the correct skill to identify an animal.
Lets see
You would prob get mundane lore: own culture. 3 ranks = 15
You have an above average total stat mod of +5 in re, giving you +10 total or even a 100 for a total of +20

you would have an skill of 35 pluss your roll to even comprehend routine facts of your culture...
You would know that you ride horses...
You can ride a horse.. 10 ranks after all...
But do you know what a horse are?
You have less then stellar chances of knowing what a horse are....
You need lore: fauna lore for that given region..(sidenote: nomads travel so horses might even be from another region, so higher diff lol )
You have no darn clue about what to feed it.. (Animal handling skill)
etc etc

And then you can argue if its mundane things to do.. but then the skills are darn meaningless and waste of ranks... Anyways, nomads are by default a culture based on fail if they even excist in harp scifi. At best they are illegal so no player falls into the trap.

Thats the same thing as d&d 3.5 knowledge mistake all over.. The farmer never knowing what a cow are.
Ever seen the signs in the amusement parks? This tall to ride..

If a culture are bound to fail based on ranks, they should not be there.
To be able to contribute on a low level in this game, you need to minmax or rely on SYSOP\GM Fiat or luck. fudge that doodoo... If all you can do are pray to the dice gods or rely on the gm to look away you are comic relief.
Thats why im saying culture are there to pick up ranks in skills that cost 4 dev points.

Let me guess.. More people that havent seen over 200 in db?
We had that at lvl 1, our very first session

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

One other exception is the Nomad culture, which gets 10 ranks in Riding: Horseback.

Where is this? It isn't in the core HARP Fantasy rulebook

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

Then next step opens.. can i purchase more ranks in my 10 ranks riding? no.. you are by default never ever gonna be better at riding at 2nd lvl then you were at first. You never improve riding skill until lvl 3 lol
What if i am human? bonus 5 skill ranks? where do those go..

If you are human, put the 5 skill ranks in another skill your character wants but isn't getting enough of from adolescence/etc, or split the 5 skill ranks up among multiple skills.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

The page before gives exsample of tier 4 biokinetic fields for stats..(+20 qu), that dont excist in the game.. Its just wrong, probably a remnant from betatesting.

Yup, that is an error dating from when Biokinesis was more generous in stat boosts. It should now read Tier 3 and be +15.

Best wishes,
Nicholas