Author Topic: Call me old fashioned...  (Read 8406 times)

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Offline markc

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2015, 01:46:45 AM »
 I have in the past put in place a youth level which was defined by your social class, this went a long way to helping with some of the skills that I thought PC's should have at least 1 or 2 ranks in but they did not have the DP for them.
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Offline tbigness

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2015, 02:14:28 PM »
I did this while playing RM2. I gave out background skills that were non-combat/Spell oriented to round out the characters for background knowledge based on their backgrounds. That is why I was excited about RMSS development.
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Offline Elf-Mage

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2015, 06:35:56 AM »
I don't know why everyone is saying that RMC/RM2 is unbalanced. If you read the introduction of ANY of the companion books, it says that you shouldn't use everything. There are tons of options for all kinds of GM's, depending on what sort of campaign they want to run. The golden rule is: READ THE BOOK!!!
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2015, 11:09:14 AM »
One trick to getting a player to develop a trade/craft is to have it determine part of their initial money.  So, for each rank in a trade/craft skill add a silver piece or something similar.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2015, 01:21:14 PM »
I don't know why everyone is saying that RMC/RM2 is unbalanced. If you read the introduction of ANY of the companion books, it says that you shouldn't use everything. There are tons of options for all kinds of GM's, depending on what sort of campaign they want to run. The golden rule is: READ THE BOOK!!!
Some people aren't able to understand the impact various parts of the rules will have on balance.  This is the exact reason all published material in a given system should be balanced as well as possible.  As time went on the oversight by the ICE editors became too lax in that regard.
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Offline markc

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2015, 02:44:24 PM »
IIRC what I heard was there was very little oversight it was just fan submitted material that was published in book form.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2015, 08:13:38 PM »
"Too lax" was probably being kind. ;)
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
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Offline adanost

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2015, 02:12:27 AM »
I liked the RMSS themed companions a lot more than RM2 "get as much as you can and pack it into a book" companions. I hope this themed philosophy is carried over to RMU.

About RMSS vs RM2. i love both of them, but I found RMSS better organised. The categories are a cleaner way of working similar skills, so I feel good with them around, even if at first look they looked quite strange. If i had to make a choice between them, i will go for RMSS. back in those days my regular campaign group changed from RM2 to RMSS without problems, and they liked RMSS better than RM2. Now, after more than ten years without GMing i am starting a new game with new players, most of them new to RM, and we are going for RMSS. With new players I don't feel safe playing a RMU Beta, but I am sure that as soon as it gets published I will change to it.
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2015, 07:51:58 AM »
I remember when I first started running RM out of the boxed set- then we expanded in to RMC1.  Not too bad.  But, RMC2 was where everyone went to for a semi spell user.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2015, 08:28:32 PM »
Our group usually plays into the teens in levels (12-17 or so) and the Semi's always pulled out in front in the end, so I often play one - although I probably play a Rogue about a fourth of the time due to their varied skill costs.  The Pure Arms PC's are good up front, then the Pure Casters pull ahead, then the Semi's eventually pull out in front of them both.
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Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
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Offline thrud

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Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2015, 05:19:10 AM »
I started out with RM2 and played that for many years. When RMSS came out we eventually switched over and played that for a long while but I never liked it as much as RM2. I think my main concern with RMSS was that it was too detailed, it hampered game play. IMHO it's more fun to have somewhat less skills that you can have a broader use for, it also allows for more inventiveness. But hey, that's just my opinion...
Having spent some time here on the board reading people's reactions and thoughts on RMU I feel a little lonely I must admit. I actually really like the Beta 2. It has something that I've never experienced in RM before, cohesiveness. 
It seems no one is happy, both RM2 players and RMSS players complain equally. Maybe the complaints are different to each other but no one seems to actually like anything. I wonder if people are just being set in their ways?
The only thing that I have a problem with is backwards compatibility. If you change how many hit points monsters have and make it relative, it'll just be a big mess to use old campaign material.
Everything else I could totally live with and enjoy. I'd be happy to change over to RMU using the Beta 2 rules after they have been fine tuned for final release. In many ways I felt that the authors had solved things in brilliant ways even if it was done very differently compared to past editions. I still feel it holds true to the Rolemaster heritage.
I could keep playing RM2/RMC too, I'd be fine with that, but IMHO RMU is a great product. I hope they don't revert back in too many ways with the next beta, being new isn't a bad thing, it's just different.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2015, 05:51:32 AM »
Having spent some time here on the board reading people's reactions and thoughts on RMU I feel a little lonely I must admit. I actually really like the Beta 2. It has something that I've never experienced in RM before, cohesiveness. 
I actually like RMU and its philosophy: it's coherent and makes a GM's work easy to create his world. With RM2, I tried creating new creatures and it was a pain, as there was absolutely no rule behind each of them, as if the creators just put down figures about how they felt the creature was supposed to be. No relationship between its type, level, OB, DB, etc., not to mention you had to learn rules to manage them that were different from the ones managing the PCs/NPCs., and no skill. I tried creating new weapons in RM2 and, uh, is there even a logic between the weapon tables? I probably won't use Spell Law as I have a major philosophical disagreement  with how RM manages realms but from what (little) I read, it seems that, at long last, spellcasting feels like being part of the same system as the other skills, rather than its own set of specific rules. RM2 used to be just that: you had ChL and its own set of rules, you had C&T and its own set of rules, you had SL and its own set of rules, the whole loosely tied by some tying rules. Now, at last, it feels like you only have one set of rules for everything.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline egdcltd

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2015, 10:20:12 AM »
I always got the impression that the RM Companions contained a lot of GM's house rules that were probably balanced in their game worlds; not so much in those of others, without at least some tweaking.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2015, 01:44:59 PM »
That's likely a huge part of it egdcltd.  When my co-author and I wrote the Channeling Companion for RMSS we were careful to re-balance things that we thought were not in line with RMSS's balance.
- Cory Magel

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Offline Malim

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2016, 06:01:57 PM »
Played RM2 for 23 years or so!

We tried out RMSS but RM2 is just the best!
We tuned some of it to our needs and liking!
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Offline Malleable

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2016, 10:30:10 AM »
I started with the Spell Law, then the Character Law, and just kept buying whatever ICE put out.
I'm currently playing RMSS, and like the system a bit better than RM2.  I feel everything is a bit better balanced.  RM2 was very cool with the diversity, and I still pull a lot of stuff from it.  The class differences are pronounced in power level.
The progression as you level seems much more pronounced, and I like the feel of a more even level progression.  Maybe as my campaign gets higher in level it might feel too restricted, but for now it feels good.

Mal

Offline Hurin

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2016, 10:55:53 AM »
I like most of what RMU is doing. I think many people do like it; I just think there are a couple of dealbreakers that had to be resolved. For me, the biggest dealbreaker was the category system for skills, as it seemed to sever the link between the class concept/description (e.g. Rangers are good at the lore of wild beasts) and the actual mechanics (Rangers aren't actually that good at the lore of wild beasts).

I didn't have too many problems with the size rules, other than the fact that they were a bit more complex than they needed to be; I didn't think we really needed 13 size categories, when 5 or 7 would suffice. Now that Thrud mentions it though, the hit point issue for size categories really would hurt backwards compatibility. If a Troll and a Halfling each have 100 hits, it is going to be a bit more complicated to use all of those old Shadow World and MERP modules. On the plus side, I think the developers have realized this and are making at least some of the necessary changes by 'baking in' the size modifier to hit points. I'm not quite sure what happens to the hit point modifier for doing damage though.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think RMU is shaping up well, aside from those two dealbreakers. There is some negativity, but that is normal and expected in a playtest: you subject every aspect of the rules to scrutiny and criticism in order to make a stronger game.
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Offline HawksNut

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2016, 03:03:26 PM »
I like most of what RMU is doing. I think many people do like it; I just think there are a couple of dealbreakers that had to be resolved. For me, the biggest dealbreaker was the category system for skills, as it seemed to sever the link between the class concept/description (e.g. Rangers are good at the lore of wild beasts) and the actual mechanics (Rangers aren't actually that good at the lore of wild beasts).

I didn't have too many problems with the size rules, other than the fact that they were a bit more complex than they needed to be; I didn't think we really needed 13 size categories, when 5 or 7 would suffice. Now that Thrud mentions it though, the hit point issue for size categories really would hurt backwards compatibility. If a Troll and a Halfling each have 100 hits, it is going to be a bit more complicated to use all of those old Shadow World and MERP modules. On the plus side, I think the developers have realized this and are making at least some of the necessary changes by 'baking in' the size modifier to hit points. I'm not quite sure what happens to the hit point modifier for doing damage though.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think RMU is shaping up well, aside from those two dealbreakers. There is some negativity, but that is normal and expected in a playtest: you subject every aspect of the rules to scrutiny and criticism in order to make a stronger game.

To me the deal breaker is Directed Spell in Combat Training. When a Magician can spend their first combat training in Directed Spell and still be better at Melee than a Druid even if the Druid uses their first Combat Training for a weapon?? This is a huge problem. I brought up this issue back in Beta one and it was heavily debated (mostly negative) and the designers did not listen.

I will use any other version of RM over RMU. Just my 2 cents.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM »

To me the deal breaker is Directed Spell in Combat Training. When a Magician can spend their first combat training in Directed Spell and still be better at Melee than a Druid even if the Druid uses their first Combat Training for a weapon?? This is a huge problem. I brought up this issue back in Beta one and it was heavily debated (mostly negative) and the designers did not listen.

I will use any other version of RM over RMU. Just my 2 cents.

Just so you know, I think they developers have now decided to take Directed Spell out of Combat Training and put it in Power Manipulation. They are listening to reason :)
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Call me old fashioned...
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2016, 06:30:48 PM »
I believe it has been said that that will be changing.

I think my single biggest issue is the lack of capability between RMU and the previous versions, which is too bad because that's likely to stop me from buying bits and pieces that I otherwise would have even if not switching.  Will have to wait and see how some of the expansion books work out, but that's probably years away.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
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"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss