Topic: Creatures

[Mungo]

Hi,

I did not find anything regarding creatures in the manuscript.

My suggestion would be to include at least all real animals from Harp to give GMs a hint about animal strength and how own alien creatures could look like/compare.

BR
Juergen

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

Properly that's to be done in SysOp's Guide.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Defendi]

Ohh.  That's a good point.  No, I think we have a problem here.  Not in the absence of creatures as such, but the absense of any opponents whatsoever.  I guess there are robots, but that's not enough.  If you want someone who doesn't own HARP fantasy to be able to play, you need to give them bad guys to send up against the good guys.  I think you need a quink NPCs chart.

[lazarus]

I'm not sure how necessary sample NPCs and villains and stuff are in the core book (they are apparently going to be available in the SysOp guide, and I would be surprised if there wasn't a critter book).  I know I would build my villains and such using (roughly) the rules for PCs for important guys, and just make up an OB/DB for goobers (basically, the way I would do HARP fantasy), and use Monsters: AFG for critters.  (of course, as I love just building characters, that's not particularly a big issue for me)

On the other hand, I can see the value in having some numbers in the book (knowing rough OB/DB averages for profession per level is helpful, for instance) - newer GMs to the system wouldn't have to make as much stuff up.

Laz

[Defendi]

Yeah, unless the game is absurdly simple character mechanic (White Wolf or AEG, for instance), I find a game without premade foes unplayable as a new GM.

[mystic]

I agree that there is a need for a list of NPC foes: normals, security guards, army personnel - anything. Even if it was just a list of names with stats and generic equipment lists it would be very helpful.

I have just started a group with the beta rules and not being familiar with HARP or ICE rules in general it took us several sessions just to get the characters flushed out with all of the stats and skills. We started an adventure just because we did not want to be generating characters all night. For awhile it was a big mystery where Life Points or how characters got their Hit total! Needless to say if there is not an adventure to steal the stats from something is needed because it is too much of a burden for new players to come up with these themselves and they may not have the time to spend on such a task.

[Thos]

I agree with the need for already made creatures. I would have been clueless when starting to run the fantasy HARP if not for the premade monsters. As this is being sold as a stand alone game, I think it needs some stand alone enemies.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

But what enemies?

The Silth?

Creatures on 1 planet?

Corporate Weasels and underworld thugs??

Enemies/Monsters will depend on the type of game, and the extent of the game being played. There are too many different possibilities as to what can be done with the system. A Fantasy setting is much less complex in most cases and has only a few standard tropes and archetypes to deal with.

On the other hand, in SF, you have cyberpunk, you have bladerunner, you have star trek, you have star wars, you have babylon5, exploration, battlestar galactica, Space: Above and Beyond, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Endless varieties. We even have one fellow saying that we shouldn't include aliens, even though these aliens are part of the default setting sprinkled throughout the product.

In other words, it is going to be nigh impossible to come up with a list of specific enemies when we have so much diversity among the types of campaigns that can be run.

[allenrmaher]

I think a collection of NPC's would be a good start, robots, enemy combatants and the like.  The Silth will undoubtedly come in various types.  I like the idea of fodder thugs and weasels.  Perhaps a few other archetypal villains like security drones, or even normally non combatant like common entities like maintenance droids and messenger couriers.

[mystic]

There are a wide range of campaigns that can come out of the system. It seem that it was possible to come up with a set of standard professions that could be used to cross multiple genres and the same should be true any type of enemy combatant. I am sure that any of the genres that have common elements such as an underworld that could have criminals and individuals that try to keep law and order such as police and security personnel. Likely a lot of genres would have some type of automated security drones. Regardless there is already a setting attached to the core rules where you could position these type of NPCS - The syndicate, MegaCorp Mercenaries, and so on. Once the stats are there I do not see why - if am desperate for an encounter I cannot use stats for mercenary with a gun and call it "robot with an attitude" or "alien creature with laser beam emitting eyes." Call them templates or just label them as example foes but at least I feel that it seems worth having something that is pre-built and ready to go.

[Thos]

There are a wide range of campaigns that can come out of the system. It seem that it was possible to come up with a set of standard professions that could be used to cross multiple genres and the same should be true any type of enemy combatant. I am sure that any of the genres that have common elements such as an underworld that could have criminals and individuals that try to keep law and order such as police and security personnel. Likely a lot of genres would have some type of automated security drones. Regardless there is already a setting attached to the core rules where you could position these type of NPCS - The syndicate, MegaCorp Mercenaries, and so on. Once the stats are there I do not see why - if am desperate for an encounter I cannot use stats for mercenary with a gun and call it "robot with an attitude" or "alien creature with laser beam emitting eyes." Call them templates or just label them as example foes but at least I feel that it seems worth having something that is pre-built and ready to go.

Agreed. At the very least, templates of some kind would be great!

[lazarus]

What's probably the most useful is "Characters at level X should be looking for scores of YY in their main area.  Combat types will want an OB/DB of OO/DD, and non-combat types can get by with N lower" stated somewhere.  This gives both the players a kind of guideline as to what the system expects of them, and gives the GM a clue on how to balance things.  Note: this could be a chart

The SysOp guide, or the SF Monster Book (assuming there is one), should have further guidelines, but the above chart idea is probably all that's necessary in the corebook, along with some guidelines as to what it means for the GM.

Laz

[Defendi]

Yeah, as a GM, I just need NPCs as a start.  I can steal those stats for creatures, thugs, diplomats, anything.  But I need to know how hard it is to kill a level 5 diletente, regardless of their role in the story. 

If there are common setting monsters, I'd like a single table of them too.  If there aren't just the NPCs.