Topic: HARP SCIFI

[johnkzin]

Until the art arrives, there won't be any print versions of HARP SciFi. A print version should not have been released at GenCon. It has done the game no favours.

Why has it done the game no favors?

If anything, I think the problem isn't that a gamma version was released, it's that the artwork is taking so damn long to get done.

Good: getting the finished rules out to people's hands so that they can play it.
Bad: anything that delays that.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

To quote the post on RPG.NET -
"HARP Science Fiction - I picked this up at GenCon last year, and it was definitely my biggest disappointment. Man, they didn't even try. HARP is a pretty nifty fantasy system. HARP Science Fiction is . . . a horribly edited joke with some of the same fantasy art cut and pasted right out of HARP. And not a single rule, or even listing, for spaceships. There's a "piloting" skill, and . . . that's the end of it."

That's the sort of first impression that the game does not need.

That customer was obviously not told that the book was not final. That customer was not told that the HARP SciFi is only part of the core rules and that the spaceships are in HARP SF Xtreme.

The name of the thread on RPG.NET is "What RPG disappointed you the most?" That's not a thread that I want any of my work to be mentioned in. By the time I heard about this thread, the thread had moved on a number of pages, so my explanation was probably never noticed.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[munchy]

He's been getting overwhelmed in the real world recently.

Can understand that so well, so well ... unfortunately. So all the best to the whole editorial team!

[munchy]

Sorry, only now read the last post. Sad to hear but my guess would be that people may have noticed by now that it was only a pre-release version and might get the full version anyway ... I will.
Anyhow, all the best and fingers crossed for the release!

[markc]

To quote the post on RPG.NET -
"HARP Science Fiction - I picked this up at GenCon last year, and it was definitely my biggest disappointment. Man, they didn't even try. HARP is a pretty nifty fantasy system. HARP Science Fiction is . . . a horribly edited joke with some of the same fantasy art cut and pasted right out of HARP. And not a single rule, or even listing, for spaceships. There's a "piloting" skill, and . . . that's the end of it."

That's the sort of first impression that the game does not need.

That customer was obviously not told that the book was not final. That customer was not told that the HARP SciFi is only part of the core rules and that the spaceships are in HARP SF Xtreme.

The name of the thread on RPG.NET is "What RPG disappointed you the most?" That's not a thread that I want any of my work to be mentioned in. By the time I heard about this thread, the thread had moved on a number of pages, so my explanation was probably never noticed.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

 Bummer from the delta to beta that I have the game has gotten a lot tighter and IMO is an excellent product.

MDC

[Cloven-Fruit-Games]

Actually we did explain it was a pre-print beta to those we sold it to at GenCon.

[thedoctor]

I agree.  The delays are starting to be a major pain in the butt.  Get us the rules in some form so that we can run a game with them.  Worry about the polish later.  Right now, make yourselves some money, and empower us to have a fully fleshed out game without having to re-write our game later due to improvised rules we had to make up while waiting for the supplement.

Is there any chance for an Xtreme Gamma?  I would really like to start a campaign; but without at least vehicle and vehicle combat rules, I'm adverse to creating a campaign.  I probably could, but it'd be like a really cheap Sci-Fi Channel presents stinker movie where they couldn't even afford horses much less vehicles so the characters walked everywhere kinda thing.

[thedoctor]

On an unrelated note, 'My Name is Bruce' is friggin' awesome.

[Karizma]

In about two more weeks when I'm out of University for the summer I'm gonna grab me HARP SciFi Gamma and take a good look at it!  I'm very interested in looking at what you've come up with.

As for the GenCon Gamma release, it's a shame not everyone understood the intention.  But that's a problem with people.

You guys do great work, and though not everyone will see that, those of us that do truly appreciate the time and effort and creative talent that you do to bring such fine work to us.

I was brought up on RoleMaster (I don't even think it was 2nd Ed, but it might've been), I played a lot of Spacemaster: Privateers, and ran some RoleMaster: FRP, and now I just finished my full campaign, with the use of HARP.

One of the reasons I stick to I.C.E. is the dedication I see coming from you guys.  I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate it, and am glad to be your customer.

[Nejira]

What is the issue with the artwork for HARP SF btw? Why is it taking this long to get it done/drawn?

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

What is the issue with the artwork for HARP SF btw? Why is it taking this long to get it done/drawn?

Replying so you won't think that I'm ignoring this thread. Unfortunately you'll need Rasyr to answer that.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Thos]

I realize that the issue or art is totally out of Mr. HM Caldwell's hands, but too am rather interested in hearing the reason it's taking so long.

[munchy]

Just wanted to comment on the artwork and the rulebook: A friend of mine got the copy and he said he liked the rules and answered my question on what he thought about the missing artwork with a "there is artwork". Which I thought shows that the rules are way more important to some people and the artwork is just that, artwork on the side, not the main interest.

[Nejira]

It was not my intent to sound complaining/whinning. Was more curious to hear about the progress of the HARP SF. It?s a good rpg, and it deserves to be given a full chance.

[Johan Wärlander]

Oh, I do think the artwork is important.. for final release at least It's what puts the final touches to a great product, and from a commercial standpoint quite important probably. There are a lot of people out there who won't give a product the opportunity for a real first impression unless there's good artwork.

I wish I could actually contribute in that department, given that I currently have a lot of time on my hands. That would probably be a disaster however, given my lack of skill a drawing If help is needed for any other aspects of these books though, I might do better, though I'm sure there are a bunch of people already working everything over.

[ironmaul]

What is the issue with the artwork for HARP SF btw? Why is it taking this long to get it done/drawn?

They didn't get me to do it. 

[Nejira]

I would say art is important to me, at least with the first impression. Although a quick look at my rpg collection reveals alot of RPGs with less quality artwork, so it?s not my sole reason to buy a RPG. That being said, it sure helps with eye candy, can?t imagine it would do a RPG any disfavors to have good artwork.

The name of the thread on RPG.NET is "What RPG disappointed you the most?" That's not a thread that I want any of my work to be mentioned in. By the time I heard about this thread, the thread had moved on a number of pages, so my explanation was probably never noticed.
Best wishes,
Nicholas

For what it?s worth, I think HARP SF is good, and worth my money

[RandalThor]

I have been sorta avoiding posting on this thread because of my feelings about art in and the apperance of a game book. I feel that they are REALLY important; a good-looking book will get me to pick it up more, want to play it more, and DEFINATELY get me to buy it more than less attractive, low art books. Maybe that's shallow, but there it is. In fact, I have been known to buy more than one copy of a book that I really like (I am still looking for a good copy of the Star Wars 2nd Ed. / black book, let me know  ).

I know that ICE isn't a huge company, but I really, really, really hope they do not just rehash the art from Spacemaster* (any and all incarnations), though I am pretty-sure they will be to an extent. Also, I can't tell you how much interior color means to me. Again, I know it is unlikely to happen, but a fella can wish, now can't he?!?


*Not that I think it is bad, in fact I like a lot of it, just want new stuff.

[WoeRie]

I have been sorta avoiding posting on this thread because of my feelings about art in and the apperance of a game book. I feel that they are REALLY important; a good-looking book will get me to pick it up more, want to play it more, and DEFINATELY get me to buy it more than less attractive, low art books.
<...>
Also, I can't tell you how much interior color means to me. Again, I know it is unlikely to happen, but a fella can wish, now can't he?!?

You should have a look at the german Rolemaster books from Sonnenfeste.de. They have very expensive art and a colored interior. To some extent it is nice to look at, but for playing it is not necessary. Sometimes even distracting and makes it more difficult to read (e.g. in dim light).

So, I would second that it is very important on the first glance (cover, layout) and can be very useful (in a monsters book), but if I know the game, I'm primary looking for good content rather than artwork and this is definitely given with HARP SF. 

[Thos]

Already being a huge fan of the HARP system, I'm not too worried about what the art looks like. However, I can say that I've bought books from systems I don't even play just because the art was so beautiful(Alpha Omega for example). I think it's a very important aspect of reeling in people who are new to a game. If HARP SF has amazing art as well as being a great set of rules, all the better. It does seem like the quest for obtaining the art is becoming a bit long. I still wonder why that is.