Author Topic: Rolemasters versions and future!  (Read 2723 times)

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Offline Malim

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Rolemasters versions and future!
« on: July 03, 2015, 08:18:12 AM »
This post might be abit colored by me playing RM2, however!

Alittle about my system backgrounds
I started in MERP with the basic book with evrything in one book, then went to RM2 wich i still play as a player, not GM!
Ive also played spacemsater, shadowrun, call of cthulu and alot of GURPS.

Back to subject:
Ive tried RMSS and ive read the new RM beta, And i wonder why ICE still try to make a new system instead of building on RM2 wich is of all the ICE systems by far the best. Ive read the new RM beta books and was thinking am I reading a GURPS book? And that kinda made me abit sad since you have a RM2 to build on and tune!
If your goal is to make it simple, then just relaunch MERP "alike" system.

would really love peoples opinion on this!

best regards a ICE fan since 1989.
Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemasters versions and future!
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2015, 02:49:04 PM »
Okay, this has a lot to do with publishing a viable product being a (pretty much required) business tactic.  I'm going to skip any comments about each version of the system or my opinions of the various incarnations of ICE and just explain the broader reasoning:  Eventually you get to a point where you've 'done it all' and continuing to publish new works for the same system is going to cause bloat and degrade the quality of the system due to repetitiveness, power escalation, and so on.  Really, that's the bottom line in a nutshell regardless of any other reasoning.

The other reasoning?  RM (RM1) originally started as an add-on or modification to other systems (obviously aiming at D&D due to customer base size).  Eventually RM grew into a system of it's on (essentially RM2), but as a result of its... organic?... growth was not well suited to gamers new to RM in general.  Add to that the bloat issue and RMSS was created in order to try and generate new revenue (from past customers buying the new system) and gain new customers (which is pretty much a requirement in the long run).  This basically explains the reasoning why RMSS came to be (I think it's fair to say that's an accurate description).

Now, from there we get into a quagmire of legal issues, management issues, opinions and guesses... and finally Tolkien Enterprises brings the hammer down on them (the first incarnation of ICE) like a fly on the wall.  R.I.P. the first incarnation of ICE.

'ICE' as we know it was bought by an individual who then licensed 'ICE' products out to a new 'ICE' (Mjolnir LLC).  RMFRP was then created, likely partially simply due to the legal changes of how things work and also RMC was eventually created as a way to capture RM2 customers that didn't want to move to RMSS/RMFRP.  However, that group lost the license for 'ICE' products for... reasons... which were then granted to former freelancer(s) who organized a new company (Guild Companion Publications) who had previously done work for the previous incarnations of 'ICE'.  Due to a variety of reasons (the bigger problematic legal ones being IP rights) a new RM really needed to be created.  That's where we are now.

So... the new RMU is essentially legally necessary (again, due to IP rights issues) and it is trying to convert RM2/RMC and RMSS/RMFRP users both and/or the new 'ICE' is trying to gain new customers again.

I think that about covers it without getting into personal opinions. ;)
- Cory Magel

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(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline pastaav

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Re: Rolemasters versions and future!
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2015, 05:25:00 PM »
'ICE' as we know it was bought by an individual who then licensed 'ICE' products out to a new 'ICE' (Mjolnir LLC).  RMFRP was then created, likely partially simply due to the legal changes of how things work and also RMC was eventually created as a way to capture RM2 customers that didn't want to move to RMSS/RMFRP.

Actually that is not true. Old ICE released 11 RMFRP titles, books that were actually selling well enough to generate a profit before MERP related problems was used by Tolkien Enterprises to force the company to be shut down. When Mjolnir more than a year later took over they finished the RMSS to RMFRP transition, but the momentum had been lost and thus RMFRP was pretty much stillborn from a marketing perspective.

As for the idea of building on RM2 to attract new customers...RMU is taking more time than anticipated to complete, and time will tell if it works out in the end. On the other hand building on RM2 is an idea that Mjolnir spent a couple of years trying to do with RMC without much progress.
/Pa Staav

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemasters versions and future!
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2015, 05:33:24 PM »
You mean, Old OLD ICE (the first one)!  I was trying to remember the timing of RMFRP and almost said "Someone point out if I'm wrong" but I knew someone would even if I didn't say that. :D

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...but the momentum had been lost and thus RMFRP was pretty much stillborn from a marketing perspective.

There was marketing??? ;)
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline VladD

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Re: Rolemasters versions and future!
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2015, 09:41:56 PM »
Also the remake of RM2 was RMC. It took all the good bits and made a fairly solid system out of it. Buy it when it is still available!
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemasters versions and future!
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2015, 01:11:45 AM »
Also the remake of RM2 was RMC.
Yep, covered that!

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Buy it when it is still available!
Yeah, if anyone is an RM2 fan with deteriorating books it's a good idea to look into it before it becomes too scarce.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline Malim

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Re: Rolemasters versions and future!
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2015, 03:57:49 AM »
Thank for the answers.

And ofc I understand and allready knew some of the reasons (money) to make the new!


Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: Rolemasters versions and future!
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2015, 12:52:40 PM »
Any RM2/Classic and RMSS/FRP products which we currently sell will remain on sale through OneBookShelf so no need to panic. Buy the pdfs, print what you need, put them in a folder, keep your old books safe.


Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme