Author Topic: Director's Briefing - September 2015  (Read 7504 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline craggles

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 621
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • I intend to live forever ... or die trying!
    • Personal Sketchpad
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2015, 07:56:13 AM »
Hi Raymond - excellent images as usual! :)
Logo Rolemaster (Unified). Illustration of 2 Covers.
Logo Re-Vamp of Shadow World.
Illustration, Page Design & Layout of Shadow World Players Guide - The World.
Illustration of various other Shadow World products
Logo Design, Page Design & Layout of HARP SF & SFX
Feel free to browse my gallery

Offline 5th Knight of Xar

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2015, 10:05:28 AM »
Hi Raymond - excellent images as usual! :)

Hiya Craig, long time no see :-)

What happened to the freelancer forum, did it just silently die off?

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2015, 12:43:09 PM »
I'm not seeing too much of a difference between color and premium color. Is it just me? The SW player guide is gorgeous, to be sure, but I wouldn't say it is worth 3x-5x the price.

One further issue is the considerable length of some of the RMU books, especially Creature Law. Unfortunately, that is the one book that really demands a lot of illustrations. If Creature Law is all going to be one book... well, that is going to be one expensive book!

Personally, I think you could do fine with just B&W interior illustrations for all the books except Creature Law. Ideally, you could give consumers the choice of color or B&W, but since you have to pay the artists for the color, you may as well go normal color for them all. Premium color I think would be a little too expensive.

Just my 2 cents (per page)  :)
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Cory Magel

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,615
  • OIC Points +5/-5
  • Fun > Balance > Realism
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2015, 01:18:14 PM »
Yeah, the entire reason I still own my D&D Creatures and Monsters book is because it has an illustration for every creature.  That's just not realistic for RM's Creatures and Monsters book.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline 5th Knight of Xar

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2015, 02:31:53 AM »
Creating a Creature Law book with an illustration for each of the creature/monster in it would most likely end up with a version that has close to double the number of pages of today's version.

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2015, 10:12:12 AM »
What might be an option is for a 3rd party book of "pictures for monsters", if it was reasonably priced.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Peter R

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,850
  • OIC Points +480/-480
    • Rolemaster Blog
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2015, 10:37:53 AM »
Not every creature needs an image. I know what a skeleton looks like and a zombie because they are part of popular culture but a Wight may be completely unknown to players coming from Sci Fi roleplaying to fantasy for the very first time.
Rolemasterblog http://www.rolemasterblog.com
Twitter https://twitter.com/RolemasterBlog
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/rolemasterblog/

Spectre771 A couple of weeks ago, I disemboweled one of my PCs with a...

Offline craggles

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 621
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • I intend to live forever ... or die trying!
    • Personal Sketchpad
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2015, 11:06:16 AM »
Hiya Craig, long time no see :-)

What happened to the freelancer forum, did it just silently die off?

Is that not still going? Chronic Migraines have kept me away from many things. :(

Not every creature needs an image. I know what a skeleton looks like and a zombie because they are part of popular culture but a Wight may be completely unknown to players coming from Sci Fi roleplaying to fantasy for the very first time.

I agree. Except for the basic ones you've mentioned, I think at least every 'type' of creature needs a image but not necessarily every 'sub-type' unless they're vastly different from one another.

For instance, we only need to see 1 Troll image, we don't need to see a Hill, Mountain, Sea, Stone etc. as well. However, the Demons are a completely different to each other and will need several images.

Although I would really love to see ALL creature images but I understand that it's probably not feasible.
Logo Rolemaster (Unified). Illustration of 2 Covers.
Logo Re-Vamp of Shadow World.
Illustration, Page Design & Layout of Shadow World Players Guide - The World.
Illustration of various other Shadow World products
Logo Design, Page Design & Layout of HARP SF & SFX
Feel free to browse my gallery

Offline Peter R

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,850
  • OIC Points +480/-480
    • Rolemaster Blog
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2015, 11:22:26 AM »
One of the problems I have with images is that RMU is at present contextless. The rules float in space with nothing to ground them. What I mean is that say a Warhammer Orc looks like this http://images.mmosite.com/warhammer/images/races/choppa-look-01.jpg but a Tolkien Orc looks like this http://a54.idata.over-blog.com/3/21/38/76/photo-du-blog/orcs-et-autres-gobelins/orc.jpg

I think I saw a reference in Creature Law to a four armed orc which may or may not look like this http://garagehammer.net/wp-content/forum-image-uploads/topher/DSCN3069.JPG Who knows?

As soon as you put an image on it then you change the nature of the beast. Think of the difference between Oriental and European dragons as another example.
Rolemasterblog http://www.rolemasterblog.com
Twitter https://twitter.com/RolemasterBlog
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/rolemasterblog/

Spectre771 A couple of weeks ago, I disemboweled one of my PCs with a...

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2015, 11:39:03 AM »
Could some of the images from earlier books be used? I know there are images of Lugroki, and the original C&T had lots of images. Would they still cost the same, or does ICE have the rights in perpetuity? Just wondering.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline 5th Knight of Xar

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2015, 01:24:36 PM »
Painting specific creatures/monsters sounds more reasonable yes.

Speed painted 4 armed orc just for the fun of it:

Offline Peter R

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,850
  • OIC Points +480/-480
    • Rolemaster Blog
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2015, 03:06:35 PM »
Some people are sickeningly talented aren't they.
Rolemasterblog http://www.rolemasterblog.com
Twitter https://twitter.com/RolemasterBlog
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/rolemasterblog/

Spectre771 A couple of weeks ago, I disemboweled one of my PCs with a...

Offline jdale

  • RMU Dev Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,102
  • OIC Points +25/-25
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2015, 03:56:49 PM »
One of the problems I have with images is that RMU is at present contextless. The rules float in space with nothing to ground them. What I mean is that say a Warhammer Orc looks like this http://images.mmosite.com/warhammer/images/races/choppa-look-01.jpg but a Tolkien Orc looks like this http://a54.idata.over-blog.com/3/21/38/76/photo-du-blog/orcs-et-autres-gobelins/orc.jpg

I think I saw a reference in Creature Law to a four armed orc which may or may not look like this http://garagehammer.net/wp-content/forum-image-uploads/topher/DSCN3069.JPG Who knows?

Can't you decide? I find the Warhammer look to be, at best, comical, and if that's the look adopted, then I'll second-guess whether the stats are appropriate for my setting's orcs. Right now the orc is setting-agnostic, and for a creature that people are already familiar with and have plenty of images of, I'm not sure that's a problem. It might be a strength instead. Likewise, say, dragons, unicorns, etc. I think the ones that many players have never heard of are more likely to be issues. RM has plenty of unique creatures.
System and Line Editor for Rolemaster

Offline Peter R

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,850
  • OIC Points +480/-480
    • Rolemaster Blog
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2015, 04:32:14 PM »
One of the problems I have with images is that RMU is at present contextless. The rules float in space with nothing to ground them. What I mean is that say a Warhammer Orc looks like this http://images.mmosite.com/warhammer/images/races/choppa-look-01.jpg but a Tolkien Orc looks like this http://a54.idata.over-blog.com/3/21/38/76/photo-du-blog/orcs-et-autres-gobelins/orc.jpg

I think I saw a reference in Creature Law to a four armed orc which may or may not look like this http://garagehammer.net/wp-content/forum-image-uploads/topher/DSCN3069.JPG Who knows?

Can't you decide? I find the Warhammer look to be, at best, comical, and if that's the look adopted, then I'll second-guess whether the stats are appropriate for my setting's orcs. Right now the orc is setting-agnostic, and for a creature that people are already familiar with and have plenty of images of, I'm not sure that's a problem. It might be a strength instead. Likewise, say, dragons, unicorns, etc. I think the ones that many players have never heard of are more likely to be issues. RM has plenty of unique creatures.

As I said earlier I don't see the need for pictures of a unicorn because they are a common image in pop culture. An orc on the other hand has many different interpretations and a player coming from a Warhammer background may be seeing something completely different to a player who likes the Lord of the Rings films.

Maybe I shouldn't have chosen orcs as an example but then I guess at a rough guestimate there are 30 warhammer 40k players for every one Rolemaster player. My idea of an orc could very well be a minority view.
Rolemasterblog http://www.rolemasterblog.com
Twitter https://twitter.com/RolemasterBlog
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/rolemasterblog/

Spectre771 A couple of weeks ago, I disemboweled one of my PCs with a...

Online Bruce

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 724
  • OIC Points +553/-553
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2015, 01:06:11 PM »
I prefer the option for both. Money seems to always be tight therefore I'd like an option to purchase either.
As far as the illustrations for the creatures. I think that is desperately needed. The pictures don't have to be so large that they almost double the size of the book but just big enough to get an idea of what the creature looks like. The starting adventures for Belynar in Cyradon do an "ok" job of this though a few of the pics are way to small but they do work.
When you game, game like you mean it! Game Hard!

Offline kwickham

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 744
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Aioskoru
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2015, 02:20:32 PM »
To be more budget friendly, I don't think all of the pictures should be full color.

The cover wil be color of course.

Only maybe one main color picture per important chapter at the beginning. The rest can be greyscale. A few color background repeated images can be used to fool the reader into believing their is more color in the book than there really is. Icons and mini pictures can be grayscale or black and white. Some B/W images can even be trimmed to where the color of background surrounds the black and white images.

Races can be either. The problem I have with color race pictures is that they are less generic.

For pictures of weapons, there is no need to add color to them.

Even then, larger picture scenes can be cut up into portions and repeated in chunks throughout the chapter and book, zooming in on specific portions of the main picture.

Most emphasis should be on the Char & Arms and Creatures Laws. Mixing Color, B/W, and Grayscale images can be done strategically to mix up the variety. Focus on unique RM monsters. No need to do skeletons, bears, and common stuff.

Spell law needs very few pictures. Treasure law will mostly be charts, and maybe a few pictures of equipment which can also be used in the Char Campaign equipment section. No need to fill the alchemy section with very many pictures. They can be B/W or greyscale.

Offline 5th Knight of Xar

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2015, 02:45:54 PM »
When it comes to interior artwork, I personally prefer greytones, probably because that style still reminds me of the old Angus McBride greytone illustrations in MERP back in the days. There's a lot of mood that can be packed into a greytone image, compared to pure black/white I think.

I've been part of the "team" of freelancers illustrating for several HARP remakes these last few years, I thought I'd share a few greytone examples in this post:





Offline kwickham

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 744
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Aioskoru
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2015, 03:04:39 PM »
Those are cool and rock even without color. It gives it more of a generic feel. Like the elf could be almost any elf, or 50% of male elves. If you add color, it becomes more of a specific named elf.

Offline Cory Magel

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,615
  • OIC Points +5/-5
  • Fun > Balance > Realism
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2015, 03:29:26 PM »
Hmmm.  I had said do color and people can just print it out in black and white if they want, but often forget that black and white art publishes differently than color art which has been printed out in black and white.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline 5th Knight of Xar

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Director's Briefing - September 2015
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2015, 01:10:07 PM »
Is that not still going? Chronic Migraines have kept me away from many things. :(

Major ouch about the migraines, I've been suffering from the same stuff for the last 20 years myself...luck is that with the years, the migraines are further apart with me..

I've been in there for the last 2 years, bumping the shoutbox chat up to 2014 and 2015...by next year I expect to see nothing but cobwebs in there..