Author Topic: Firing into melee  (Read 2295 times)

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Offline Tywyll

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Firing into melee
« on: March 17, 2017, 05:32:05 AM »
Are there rules for firing into melee?

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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 07:23:15 AM »
I'm sure there are some rules buried in the books for RM2.  We've always handled it as a percentage chance you hit your intended target.  Two people = 50% chance.  Three people = 33% so on.

We did not allow any skills to offset that percentage.  Combat is fluid and frenetic.  You have no way of knowing when one or the other in the battle will move, dodge, feint, attack, step back, etc.  Let alone knowing what two people who are trying to kill each other are going to do and precisely when.  They could shift positions as the arrow is in flight.  It was always left up to the Fates.

Sniping Skill is only applied when the target is moving in a predictable path.  Melee is anything but predictable.   Try shooting a paintball gun at two friends who are having a sword fight.  ;D
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Offline Pazuzu

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 07:46:38 AM »
When I am GM, I use each additional combatant as a soft cover penalty.

If the attack misses, I have the attacking character roll a 0 OB attack on a random combatant.

Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 08:05:25 AM »
We also use the soft cover penalty. But we don't roll for an additional attack on a random combatant in case of a miss. A +0 OB attack never seemed worth the effort of determining a target and checking if the attack yields any damage.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 10:09:15 AM »
We used to do what Pazuzu does.

RMU now has rules for this, on p. 95 of the Arms and Character Law .pdf. Basically it is the same idea: cover from combatants and a +0 roll on random target on a miss. It does add a wrinkle in that you are supposed to consider the combatants evading though.
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Offline Pazuzu

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 11:58:54 AM »
It does add a wrinkle in that you are supposed to consider the combatants evading though.

But are they considered to be evading the archer, or the other melee combatants?

Offline Pazuzu

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 12:01:58 PM »
A +0 OB attack never seemed worth the effort of determining a target and checking if the attack yields any damage.

We enjoy using it for the chance of an open ended roll. I've seen a PC dwarf get killed by an arrow to the head from a team mate this way.

Much laughing and ribbing occurred after that, even for years afterwards.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 12:11:51 PM »
It does add a wrinkle in that you are supposed to consider the combatants evading though.

But are they considered to be evading the archer, or the other melee combatants?

My understanding is that they are counted as evading the archer because they are moving around dodging melee attacks. But I could be wrong: that's just my reading of it.
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Offline Tywyll

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 05:22:45 PM »
Thanks gang, that's great.

I don't guess Space Master or Cyberspace were any clearer on the topic?

Offline Majyk

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 05:50:27 AM »
I was a mean GM, apparently!


I always thought that most RPGs suffer their Heroes for not applying their innate abilities(Stat Bonii) to random chance situations.


Totally correct for Half Soft Cover mods arranged by closest cover to the Firing (N)PC down the line to the original target.
If the total adjusted OB hits the Soft Cover range, that particular target gets the missile, instead!

For swarm fighting surrounding a target:
As above, for however many combatants are engaged against the single foe but the percentage chance of hitting a friendly would be reduced by the Firer's Stat Bonus(we used AG).
So, 2 (N)PCs fighting one another has 50% chance of hitting either combatant.
Firer has +10 AG Stat Bonus so we skewed this by that same number as a percentage bump in hitting whom you wanted =now, there is a 60% chance of hitting the proper target in a pitched melee contest vs your friend - still not favourable odds!!!


For the OB used:
I'd make the friendly target be hit with Surprise at normal OB if the random chance did land on them.
I didn't like how the already released arrow had second thoughts about how hard it was going to hit someone that was not the intended target!


It made targetting into melee combat something you really needed to be sure of and acceded to by those possibly in the line of fire!


Offline Spectre771

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2017, 03:44:32 PM »
Thanks gang, that's great.

I don't guess Space Master or Cyberspace were any clearer on the topic?

I went through Spacemaster Tech Book, Player Book, and Companion I and I didn't find any information on firing into melee.  I did learn that SM was released in between 1st ed. RM and 2nd ed. RM2. lol.  It made reference to RM "...and the upcoming 2nd edition Rolemaster..."

..... and Vacuum Crits are still way awesome!  8)   "In a clear attempt to gross everyone out, target bleeds through all of his pores."
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Offline DeadBob

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 10:44:24 PM »
I lean towards Majyk's interpretation. It makes the shooter more cautious (go deliberate for the OB boost, or don't fire into crowds) and the party had more after-battle role-play from the friendly fire event.

In my current campaign, most of the friendly fire comes from the magician... Who is also the party's only healer (herbs, first aid, second aid, surgery).

Offline Majyk

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2017, 11:33:04 PM »
In my current campaign, most of the friendly fire comes from the magician... Who is also the party's only healer (herbs, first aid, second aid, surgery).


Haha, well, if you're gonna be the cause of all of the pain one'd better be able to effect repairs thereafter!
Good on the Mage to recognize this, early.

Offline jdale

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 10:06:27 PM »
It does add a wrinkle in that you are supposed to consider the combatants evading though.

But are they considered to be evading the archer, or the other melee combatants?

Evasion just means you are moving erratically and unpredictably in a way that makes it harder to target you with ranged attacks. It applies to all ranged attacks by anyone, it's not focused against a particular attacker.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 04:52:29 AM »
One would assume that all the skill ranks and accumulated OB is being used by the shooter to target a chink in the armour or a specific place on the target. If an intervening body comes between shooter and target I cannot see why all that skill and precision would suddenly be focused their own friends back.

I use the cover rules and if the shot misses due to the cover penalty then using a new attack roll but with only stat, position and magic/quality bonuses check the attack against the accidental victim.

It is not unheard of a poor attack into melee being immediately followed by an open ended attack against a friend.
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Offline Majyk

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Re: Firing into melee
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 04:48:23 PM »
Ahah.
I could see that, too.


For me, it is more akin to a horizontal terminal velocity effect:
Once leaving the firer's control, it doesn't become a worse general shot due to a few mms of distance/aim if practically striking the same area but on a buddy.


I like seeing the betrayed expression on a party member looking at the culprit inflicting a friendslayer critical!