Author Topic: Here is an idea about party leadership  (Read 1352 times)

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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Here is an idea about party leadership
« on: August 20, 2017, 03:54:30 PM »
In any party there are group dynamics present that are largely shaped by the players real life personalities. I am going to suggest one way to handle leadership.

What I have noticed in my campaign (perhaps yours is similar) is that there are one or two dominant personalities that tend to take on the primary decision making roles. While this isnt a bad thing at all I think that players tend to slip into habits and the same ones will take the lead in decision making and leading the party.

My idea will give the leadership of the party over to one person. The amount of time they lead for is up to them and the rest of the party. This leader can be elected or a name pulled out of a hat. It is up to the group. They key thing is the leader will change and each player will take their turn leading the party. I'm not suggesting that one person is in charge of every PCs actions at all only that they have the lions share of the decision making and if it comes to a split vote then they cast the deciding vote.

thoughts?

Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 03:58:41 PM »
This might have other positive spin-offs for how a session is run and organised. The leader might meet with the GM one on one at the start (say 15-20mins) before the rest of the group arrive and discuss what they would like to achieve in the upcoming session. This would also be a chance to sort out any questions or issues that might have come up in the previous session. Lets say there is a player who is ALWAYS late to arrive or that there is a house rule the GM has been using that the players dont like very much. Seems to me that having a 'chain of command' like this will be useful and a good way to handle any issues that arise and likely prevent things from becoming a major problem because they can be dealt with quickly.

This meeting time would be perfect for the player to talk about their own PC and their goals or even have a discussion about skill development, background, NPC contacts, plans for spells at next level up etc etc

Offline Malim

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 05:49:23 AM »
Leadership in groups will naturally fall "upon" those who are "leaders" as a person them self's.
No point in giving a follower a leader hat on for no reason, it will create unbalance in group dynamics.
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Offline Dragonking11

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 07:36:11 AM »
I also prefer to let the leaders take the spot naturally. Usually the other players like it that way too.

The only time I try to "push" someone a bit in the leader seat is if I feel that they would like to do it but are afraid or hesitant to do so.

Of course, depending on the groups (they are people after all), the difficulty to manage the leadership among players vary greatly

Offline Peter R

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 11:48:02 AM »
In my group there are two real alpha males who clash terribly. In the past when either has taken the group leader position the other as locked horns with him repeatedly to the detriment of the game. In the current game a different player was playing a Cleric and the plot required that the party work for the church so I had the NPC patron zero in straight to the cleric and gave him the funds and resources, he always referred to them as the clerics team and so on. In that first session they just deferred to the cleric and he has remained team leader ever since.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 01:18:29 PM »
In my group there are two real alpha males who clash terribly. In the past when either has taken the group leader position the other as locked horns with him repeatedly to the detriment of the game. In the current game a different player was playing a Cleric and the plot required that the party work for the church so I had the NPC patron zero in straight to the cleric and gave him the funds and resources, he always referred to them as the clerics team and so on. In that first session they just deferred to the cleric and he has remained team leader ever since.

I also have two alpha males in my group. They havent clashed directly that much yet but the potential is there. I have given each PC their own personal goals and the players themselves pick additional goals they would like to aim for. XP is awarded for goal completion. Its become the main source of XP in my campaign and i think it gives players who are better at roleplaying or non-combat stuff a better balance of the XP which used to be mostly from combat.
We typically play 3-4hr sessions online so having a chain of command will help coordinate the groups a bit when there are some unclear choices to me made. There will also be times when the party are all moving towards the same main goal making the need for a leader less important.

Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 02:47:30 PM »
I'm not a big fan of private meetings with the leader and the GM prior to session start, at least in FTF games. It creates a bad impression. As for setting party leaders, it varies depending on the game. In the espionage games there's usually a lead agent, and in military stuff there's almost always a team leader as well. I agree it's not always productive to force leadership on someone who doesn't want it, but sometimes they make a good second in command or assistant team leader and really shine in those roles.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 11:56:42 PM »
In a non-RM game I am playing currently, the GM and the party leader often discuss things between games, even advancing the game with actions, and I think it's problematic. The GM's intent is to keep things moving quickly but it often backfires because the other players spend a significant amount of time arguing about things they weren't included on. This would be less of an issue if the player was good about sharing the information, but for various reasons he's not. In my opinion, if the GM is going to offer the opportunity to push things forward between sessions, that opportunity should be there for everyone (even though some players will not take advantage of it).


As for circumstances creating a leader, that's certainly true and can be helpful to avoid the same person being the leader all the time. The GM can also take advantage of that to change leaders from time to time, e.g. while the party is traveling with group X, they'll have to at least act like Joe PC is in charge (maybe for religious reasons, maybe he's the military veteran, etc). You can also take advantage of language to change who gets to be the main party spokesman. I think it's useful to change the party dynamic from time to time. In the long term you also have to be aware of what people enjoy and some people will not enjoy always being put on the spot, but it's often good for a leader to remember what it's like for everyone else.

In our RMSS game, the fighter is the long-established leader, the elven mentalist is the gadfly/vizier, and my nightblade is mediator and adviser to both sides. But currently we're in the elven lands where things are different, so leadership has fallen more to the mentalist (who has higher civilian rank here) and the elven paladin (who has higher military rank).

In the RMU game, the rogue is the leader of the uncivilized half of the party, and the civilized half of the party doesn't really have a leader so they do a lot of discussion. When it comes to civilized interactions with the world, the rogue lets the civilized folk figure out how to do things, but once things get into high-risk (combat, dungeon delving, etc), the rogue will take charge. It's an interesting dynamic.




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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 01:29:47 AM »
In a non-RM game I am playing currently, the GM and the party leader often discuss things between games, even advancing the game with actions, and I think it's problematic. The GM's intent is to keep things moving quickly but it often backfires because the other players spend a significant amount of time arguing about things they weren't included on. This would be less of an issue if the player was good about sharing the information, but for various reasons he's not. In my opinion, if the GM is going to offer the opportunity to push things forward between sessions, that opportunity should be there for everyone (even though some players will not take advantage of it).


As for circumstances creating a leader, that's certainly true and can be helpful to avoid the same person being the leader all the time. The GM can also take advantage of that to change leaders from time to time, e.g. while the party is traveling with group X, they'll have to at least act like Joe PC is in charge (maybe for religious reasons, maybe he's the military veteran, etc). You can also take advantage of language to change who gets to be the main party spokesman. I think it's useful to change the party dynamic from time to time. In the long term you also have to be aware of what people enjoy and some people will not enjoy always being put on the spot, but it's often good for a leader to remember what it's like for everyone else.

In our RMSS game, the fighter is the long-established leader, the elven mentalist is the gadfly/vizier, and my nightblade is mediator and adviser to both sides. But currently we're in the elven lands where things are different, so leadership has fallen more to the mentalist (who has higher civilian rank here) and the elven paladin (who has higher military rank).

In the RMU game, the rogue is the leader of the uncivilized half of the party, and the civilized half of the party doesn't really have a leader so they do a lot of discussion. When it comes to civilized interactions with the world, the rogue lets the civilized folk figure out how to do things, but once things get into high-risk (combat, dungeon delving, etc), the rogue will take charge. It's an interesting dynamic.

Because we play exclusively on roll20 I allow 'offline' individual goal advancement in between group sessions. This is up to each player. I have found i a useful way to keep players engaged between live online sessions. Where possible I make these story developments available to all players by posting info on a shared facebook page. Occasionally a PC will undertake a secret solo mission but this is uncommon as it creates quite a bit of extra work for me as GM. Of course you can always just make a few rolls and give them the results in summary form and it doesnt have to be super detailed. As GM I tend to give players a few 'minor' actions each in between each live group session. This could be things like seeking out an NPC contact for aid or selling items at the market.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 10:26:44 AM »
RM2 has a PC class called Leader and there is also the Leadership skill.  If I have a toss-up between two or more ideas in the group, I have them roll Leadership and the party will "agree" that one person's idea is better, or better presented, or they tend towards that player.  It works great with NPC's.

The Leader character class gets Leadership skill at 1/2/2 and it is extremely useful.  But a good leader isn't always "Do what I say."  The good leader knows when to listen to someone else's ideas too.  If the Leadership roll is really high, I could easily say "You've thought it through and you're inclined to think his idea has better merit than yours.  There will be less chance of detection and you'll be more effective at getting to your goal."  The player could take that as a little "GM-nugget-of-wisdom."

I'm also in agreement with what the responses seem to be gravitating towards; I don't want to choose a player to wear the "leader hat" for a session, even if it's a rotating hat that everyone gets to wear.  I don't like when the leader of a group has a private pow-wow with the GM prior to or during game play where only the leader knows what's going on.  It really doesn't sit well with me as a player.   I know there are times when a GM needs to pass a note onto a player, but that isn't what we're referring to here.

The party, either consciously or unconsciously, gravitates towards the good ideas not so much the good leader of the group or just one person's goals.  I can only speak for the groups I've been with and perhaps in your group, the role of a party leader works better.  The really fun players as well as the really good roleplayers tend to be open to the ideas of everyone and party's goals and move with the best path.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Here is an idea about party leadership
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 12:52:30 PM »
RM2 has a PC class called Leader and there is also the Leadership skill.  If I have a toss-up between two or more ideas in the group, I have them roll Leadership and the party will "agree" that one person's idea is better, or better presented, or they tend towards that player.  It works great with NPC's.

The Leader character class gets Leadership skill at 1/2/2 and it is extremely useful.  But a good leader isn't always "Do what I say."  The good leader knows when to listen to someone else's ideas too.  If the Leadership roll is really high, I could easily say "You've thought it through and you're inclined to think his idea has better merit than yours.  There will be less chance of detection and you'll be more effective at getting to your goal."  The player could take that as a little "GM-nugget-of-wisdom."

I'm also in agreement with what the responses seem to be gravitating towards; I don't want to choose a player to wear the "leader hat" for a session, even if it's a rotating hat that everyone gets to wear.  I don't like when the leader of a group has a private pow-wow with the GM prior to or during game play where only the leader knows what's going on.  It really doesn't sit well with me as a player.   I know there are times when a GM needs to pass a note onto a player, but that isn't what we're referring to here.

The party, either consciously or unconsciously, gravitates towards the good ideas not so much the good leader of the group or just one person's goals.  I can only speak for the groups I've been with and perhaps in your group, the role of a party leader works better.  The really fun players as well as the really good roleplayers tend to be open to the ideas of everyone and party's goals and move with the best path.

Good points here. I guess it depends on the purpose of what the pre meeting is about. In a short gaming session you need to get things moving sometimes and having a plan of action through through beforehand can help. I guess this really depends on you knowing your players as well. If they are likely to take advantage of it then its not going to work for you.  Any info you discuss is most likely public knowledge anyway and its something i would share the rest of the players into at the start of the ssion so they are informed and part of the process.