Author Topic: interchangeable OB  (Read 1134 times)

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Offline juza

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interchangeable OB
« on: September 11, 2017, 03:31:41 AM »
I noticed that in RMU the skill cost for weapons and martial arts are interchangeable but in the previous editions of Rolemaster you can't switch the skill cost of a weapon category with one of the martial arts category. It will be so absurd to allow to switch a martial arts skill cost with one from the weapon category?

Offline Sable Wyvern

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Re: interchangeable OB
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 07:01:07 AM »
I have no idea how RMU works, but in RM2 and RMSS, there are fundamental differences between the way martial arts and weapon skills are developed.

By default, martial arts require four separate skills to be developed to reach peak potential or, if using something like RMSS Martial Arts Companion, 1 - 2 attack skills plus a martial arts style. Conversely, being good with a weapon requires one skill. As such, doing what you're suggesting is going to have some potentially significant ramifications.

Having said all that, I don't think allowing martial arts skills be be included in the standard OB skill costs that can be allocated as you see fit is going to impact the game dramatically, unless you're also using some of the optional rules with players that are actively seeking to break the system (I'm thinking at least one way to demonstrate possible flaws with this rule would probably involve starting with a High Warrior Monk).

The inherent balancing factor, however, is that you're still limited to two ranks per level, even if your primary weapon cost is 1/2, and a non-monk character moving a weapon cost to martial arts still isn't going to be as good at martial arts as a warrior monk.

Personally, I don't really see anything to be gained by such a house rule, but I don't think it's likely to cause any major headaches.

Offline Voriig Kye

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Re: interchangeable OB
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 07:23:05 AM »
In RMC and RMFRP, Martial Arts require 4 different "ranks" of skills, and are also divided into strike and sweep attacks.
In RMU, Martial Arts is renamed as "Unarmed" and is just another type of combat skill (melee, ranged, unarmed) and then divided into strikes and sweeps.

In the Combat Companion (which can be used for RMC and RMFRP), Martial Arts are handled like in RMU, as one of the possible combat skills. This means you can swap the cost and create an unarmed warrior, and also a sword wielding monk.
Furthermore Combat Companion also includes Directed Spells as one of the combat categories, so you can create a sword wielding magician, or a warrior who is good at aiming firebolts. This did not make it into RMU though.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: interchangeable OB
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 08:07:02 AM »
I agree with the pervious replies as well.  Developing MA (Strikes or Sweeps/Throws) is fundamentally different.  The DP investment in MA skills is far greater than that of a weapon category.  For a MA to swap it out for a weapon skill would be self defeating.  Allowing a weapon category to be swapped into a MA slot would either give the MA too much power or be crippling.

There are 4 level of Martial Arts, Rank 1-4.  Think of it as Green Belt, Blue Belt, Brown Belt, Black Belt.  You need to look at those as individual weapon categories like 1H Slashing, 2H Slashing, Bows, 2H Crushing.

To have two skill dots in R2 MA, there must two or more skill dots in R1.  Each level of MA must be purchased as if it we a separate skill, not simply "Martial Arts."  You could have an incredibly Skilled R1 Martial Artist (10 skill points purchased) but he'll never do damage beyond the level of R1 on the attack charts.  R4 <= R3 <= R2 <=R1

In order to have 2 ranks in Black Belt, the MA needs to have at least two ranks in Green At least 2 ranks in Blue, and at least 2 Ranks in Brown.  That's the equivalent of at least 8 skill ranks.
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Offline jdale

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Re: interchangeable OB
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 11:46:53 AM »
In RMU, OB in unarmed combat is developed the same way as with weapons. It does not have the higher DP costs of different rank levels as in previous editions. That means you could build a fast, unarmored combatant who uses a weapon rather than fighting unarmed as a warrior monk. This could represent a martial artist who uses martial arts weapons (e.g. staff, escrima sticks, etc) or it could represent a different martial tradition like fencing. Either way, someone who relies on speed and maneuverability rather than armor. The Warrior Monk's strengths aren't just from their OB, but also from supporting skills especially in Body Discipline and Movement, so this doesn't also mean that other classes find it equally easy to be an effective martial artist, even though they would have no trouble focused on unarmed vs armed OB.
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Offline juza

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Re: interchangeable OB
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 02:25:12 AM »
thank you for the feedback guys

Offline Hurin

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Re: interchangeable OB
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 09:42:57 AM »
One last point to note about RMU is that only the Warrior Monk and Monk can take a professional bonus in Unarmed, and neither of them can take that bonus in any other weapon skill. So they really are best in Unarmed, though they can develop other weapon skills relatively easily.
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