Author Topic: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?  (Read 3162 times)

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Offline Zhaleskra

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How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« on: April 20, 2016, 09:20:35 AM »
I'm afraid I still don't understand, even after re-reading the description twice. How is "access to more spells" a talent? Unless it's to limit what Clerics can choose from the Mage sphere?

I am planning to get more of HARP Fantasy's books, some in both PDF and physical format and perhaps that will help answer this question.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 11:56:11 AM »
Future HARP sourcebooks will introduce new spells for existing professions. However all professions will be capped on how many spells are known by an individual character. Due to how the Magician is defined as the generalist among the mages, more spells will be designated as potentially available to that Circle and they will also have a higher cap than Elementalists, Necromancers, Thaumaturges, Vivamancers, Demonologists and Mystics.

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Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 08:56:11 AM »
That still doesn't make sense to me. After all, wasn't a point of making spells scalable restricting how many spells a character learns? "you're going to have a bigger potential spell list" still doesn't seem like an ability to me.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 04:39:53 AM »
That still doesn't make sense to me. After all, wasn't a point of making spells scalable restricting how many spells a character learns? "you're going to have a bigger potential spell list" still doesn't seem like an ability to me.

Scalable spells does not restrict how many spells a character has. A scalable spell encapsulates many instances of variations on a spell concept. Spell-using characters will have a cap on the number of concepts (scalable spells). As the number of available spells increases, players will need to  choose which spells their character knows. If they want more, it will require buying a talent to expand their spell knowledge.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
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Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 12:22:58 PM »
That is a more satisfactory answer than I was expecting, though it raises another question: are these caps written anywhere yet?
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Offline dagorhir

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 08:13:31 AM »
I think the only place is on pg 15 of the HARP fantasy book. What it doesn't state is the spell cap for non-spellcasters like fighters, thieves and monks who can learn spells from the general sphere.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 09:27:28 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, there is no limit on how many Universal spells can be learned, for anyone. So far as I'm aware, the limits on spell access for various professions applies only to learning spells in "professional" spheres. For fighters, rogues, etc., who have no "professional sphere" access, I would assume that to be zero unless they buy some sort of sphere access as a talent.

Those who are more knowledgeable on the subject than I, please correct me if I am wrong here.
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Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 09:55:33 AM »
I don't remember seeing spell cap numbers. The numbers of spells on the professional sphere lists, yes. As I recall, the rule doesn't seem to mention the Universal Sphere at all.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 11:27:17 AM »
The spell cap rule will explicitly come into play with Something Wicked. It will not affect the Universal Sphere but I intend to keep a very tight rein on new additions to the Universal Sphere.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline dagorhir

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 05:39:52 PM »
So a magician can learn 40 spells of his sphere and any number of universal spells, is that correct?

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2016, 08:29:40 PM »
At this point, I think it's best to say it's a poorly explained "ability". There are some professions that only get one ability, such as the rogue.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2016, 04:44:41 PM »
So a magician can learn 40 spells of his sphere and any number of universal spells, is that correct?

Yes.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline dagorhir

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2016, 05:25:28 PM »
So a magician can learn 40 spells of his sphere and any number of universal spells, is that correct?

Yes.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

I had that wrong then. Just improved my knowledge of harp. :)

Offline Bruce

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2016, 04:26:18 PM »
At this point, I think it's best to say it's a poorly explained "ability". There are some professions that only get one ability, such as the rogue.
Access to the universal sphere is a pretty big ability, which rogue's get. If you have a rogue character that does not use any spells then the GM could easily offer an alternative to that, but it should be noted on the player's sheet that they do not have access to any spheres.

EDIT: That is I assume because of their affiliation to the Mystical skills that they automatically have access like any other profession that has Mystical skills as a favored category.
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Offline dagorhir

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2016, 06:09:36 PM »
Access to the universal sphere is a pretty big ability, which rogue's get. If you have a rogue character that does not use any spells then the GM could easily offer an

I believe all professions have access to the Universal sphere. The only difference for the rogue (as opposed to the fighter or thief) is the development cost of the spells.

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2016, 09:06:35 PM »
dagohir has it right, everybody gets access to the Universal Sphere, the difference is that it's not a favored category for Fighters, Monks, or Thieves.
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Offline Charlie Four

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2016, 04:18:08 PM »
Considering the rogue gets seven FC, including cheap access to Universal spells, I'd say s/he doesn't need any special abilities. If you allow Training Packages the rogue can have him/herself a party with them, s/he's got them much cheaper than anyone else.

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2016, 08:44:36 PM »
Regarding your edit, Bruce, it's clearly stated before the professions even begin that everyone can learn spells from the Universal Sphere. Mystic Arts not being a favored category does not mean "cannot learn spells". Do you deny characters other skills that aren't in their favored categories?

Charlie, what was overpowered was Mages getting Scholar as an ability, and I still have a problem with +10 to every thing in a skill category talents. It's also likely why the rogue's skill bonus ability caps at +25.
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Offline Bruce

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2016, 12:17:01 AM »
Regarding your edit, Bruce, it's clearly stated before the professions even begin that everyone can learn spells from the Universal Sphere. Mystic Arts not being a favored category does not mean "cannot learn spells". Do you deny characters other skills that aren't in their favored categories?

Charlie, what was overpowered was Mages getting Scholar as an ability, and I still have a problem with +10 to every thing in a skill category talents. It's also likely why the rogue's skill bonus ability caps at +25.
Yeah I found the rule for universal spells after I had posted that and never came back to reply. FYI, none of the players in my games have ever developed non favored skills, and rogues are barely played at all. Just a few weeks ago I actually had to many players in my game so all the skills were covered and then some. But like 3 or 4 had to drop out due to jobs and what not. So it is at a respectable level now. I am putting a cap on the number of players at 6 or 7 from now on, it gets to hectic after that. They still more than cover the gamut of skills so no one thinks about non favored skills that much.

The benefit of the rogues having the Mystical Category as a favored one is two fold. They not only get the low cost for spell development but also for PP development.
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Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How is Magician's Versatiliy an Ability/Talent?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2016, 12:37:15 PM »
The only pregen I made to give my friends a taste of the combat system who I didn't have develop at least one spell was the monk.
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