Author Topic: Mortality in games  (Read 1931 times)

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Offline Dimuscul

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Mortality in games
« on: August 25, 2017, 04:31:16 AM »
Hi everybody!

So, how do you treat mortality in your games?

The thing is. In my last session two players died due to critic hits. They were almost direct deaths (the 5 rounds to die type). And we are playing in a no-magic setting (but I allow magical herbs, so player's aren't gimped after 3 battles). We had fun and all, and nobody cries for a death, but ...

After the session i overheard one of the players mentioning that he didn't really care about the character because they are to fragile and die to easily. So it's hard for him to have any bond with it and well ... care more about it.

And I reckon this has been nagging me since that session (3 weeks ago).

So how do you do it? Simply accept that players gonna die and move on, or you have some tricks in the sleeve?

Offline Malim

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2017, 05:45:19 AM »
In short campaign`s I would feel less attached to a PC.
But in a longer running campaign if I had to re roll every other night, I would tbh stop playing.
But that is also because I personally only like long running campaigns where you can get really to know and evolve your PCs.
Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline Dimuscul

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2017, 05:56:32 AM »
Yeah, I understand that but ... how do you avoid the dead by a open ended roll?

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 06:29:30 AM »
There are a few of ways to handle this really and one of the ways is discussed in another thread regarding Fate Points. 

( http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=18097.0 )

At PC creation, I have my players roll 1D4. 

1, 2, 3 = 1 Fate Point.
4 = 2 Fate Points.

These points can be used for anything a player wants to use them for, like reroll a death crit they received.  It's Fate.  They weren't meant to die now, they were meant to find this treasure, etc.  I've had players use them for different purposes such as locating a secret opening they had open-ended-fumbled, another wanted to find a really great weapon in the treasure hoard.  I personally don't allow players to re-earn Fate Points.  The game is no fun if everyone is immortal and they can keep getting Fate Points to avoid death.  That tends to players not putting much thought or creativity and... CAUTION into their gaming.  Playing a game on God-Mode gets boring fast. 

One caveat though.  There's no guarantee the re-roll won't be as devastating as the first.

Something my group has done since I started playing is start all players at level 5.  That gives players 6 levels worth of development, hopefully investment in more skills such as Body Damage Stabilize (a huge skill your players should have if your world is non-magical.... actually, your world sounds a lot like mine  :D ), First Aid, Second Aid, Surgery, Herb Lore, Region Lore, Flora Lore, Use/Remove Poison, Poison Lore.  These are all skills that players may not want to invest in at first level as they try to build up their PCs, but given 6 levels worth of development, PCs are more fleshed out and can handle more rigors of adventuring.

Another option that is always available to the GM... change the crit if you think it's just too early in the campaign to drop players.  The players don't know what the GM rolled and they don't know what the crit is.  It's your discretion.

Switch dice if you are killing off PCs too easily.  Everyone has a pair of "These-damned-dice-are-cursed!" and they switch out for their "lucky dice."  I know I do!  ;D

Finally... and most importantly....

PARRY PARRY PARRY!

Players tend to forget to parry, especially if they've been playing another game system where they can ONLY attack or ONLY parry in a given round.  Taking 25OB and adding to DB can be the difference between 95E Crit and 95C Crit, or simply not even being hit.

If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Dimuscul

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 06:34:15 AM »
Quote
Body Damage Stabilize

What skill is this?

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 07:32:52 AM »
Quote
Body Damage Stabilize

What skill is this?

Paraphrasing....

The ability for the person to go into a self-induced coma of sorts until further medical attention can be given.

It's pretty important in our world, but I am also very liberal with healing meds and herbs.  The players still have an extremely difficult time finding the life saving herbs as they are very rare.  I try to stick to difficulty factor as listed in the books.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 08:04:37 AM »
Quote
Body Damage Stabilize

What skill is this?

Sent you a PM with more details of the gaming word we use.

Body Damage Stabilize should be in RMC-2
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Mordrig

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2017, 10:55:54 AM »
I roll an 11th Stat: Luck, the stat bonus may be applied to a roll to succeed, or avoid instant death.  The stat temp is then burned off for the amount of the bonus.  No Bonus, no roll mod.  At next level up the stat is checked to see if it goes up or down like any other.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 12:31:54 PM »
I roll an 11th Stat: Luck, the stat bonus may be applied to a roll to succeed, or avoid instant death.  The stat temp is then burned off for the amount of the bonus.  No Bonus, no roll mod.  At next level up the stat is checked to see if it goes up or down like any other.

That's a great idea.  I had tried making a Luck stat too, but I didn't really have a mechanic to implement it so we went with Fate Points.  I like the idea that your "luck can run out."  It makes great sense and it's a phrase we use all the time in real life.  I think I may introduce this into the campaign I'm starting.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Duette-1

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 06:52:11 AM »
 Long post sorry. Its funny you say players dont invest in their characters. In my experience one of the great things about RM/SM is that combat brings a real sense of fear. I've lost track of the number of WFRP or d6 characters ive rolled through over the years but I'll never forget the warrior monk who got blinded cos he got cocky and tried to throw a fight! Or the SM party blindly running away from a hive of Snee! For that reason I worry that a system like fate points or luck which work really well in a more cinematic game might detract from the fun a bit in RM. Perhaps the difference is danger/vs death and i think thats one of the hardest things to balance in a campaign so i feel your pain!. I think things that delay death as mentioned above or healing are really important in a game as lethal as RM as it gives time for the old NPC save story, often with consequences. Of course this doesnt help with instakills but (and i dont know if this is sacrilege) I'm a great believer that you shouldnt let a die roll get in the way of a good story! So dont let them see your rolls!

Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 08:42:07 PM »
Fate points work fine in RM provided you have a limited amount of them. On average my players used maybe one point per level, and that was strictly in combat situations. I don't typically use the points in my fantasy games, though. But any setting without magical healing needs some kind of safety net, and a small pool of points works quite well in my experience.
Darn that salt pork!

Offline Mordrig

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 07:56:32 AM »
Lack of danger is the reason I adopted Luck, nobody wants their character of 20 years to die (well most people) but in RM you can die to a lucky peasant with a rock.  Yet why become invested in a character that could die any second?  For this reason I adopted luck, but made it still have severe limits.  If you have a luck of 90 you may modify a critical strike by as much as 10, for a cost of 10 of your luck.  Now your stat is no longer 90, but 80.  Now you can only move the roll by 5, do that twice and you have no more luck to use.  At most you get 3 rolls you can change by 5-25 per level.  If you somehow got a 100 roll for luck, you have a+/- 25 and a +/- 5, then your stat is no longer giving a modifier.  Players tend to keep that modifier for use when they Really need it, and then it is a one of thing.  You get a critical that says you die in 15 rounds, want to burn luck or hope the others finish the guy before the 15 rounds are up so they can work on keeping you alive?  If you accept the critical and it takes 16 rounds there is no Aegis, you die my friend.  If you use your luck, and burn 10 from your stat it may take you 10+ levels to get that luck back. 

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 08:12:48 AM »
Lack of danger is the reason I adopted Luck, nobody wants their character of 20 years to die (well most people) but in RM you can die to a lucky peasant with a rock.

"Lack of danger"?   :)

You're absolutely right about players investing so much time into a PC, then suddenly losing it to a lucky roll out of the blue.  We use the Fate Points to hopefully avoid that pitfall, but the reroll could be as deadly as the first roll, but at least a 2nd chance is better than instant death.  But we also wanted to keep that level of danger and risk in the game so players cannot get back Fate Points once they are used.  If your PC can just keep rerolling to avoid death, there's no need for Fate Points, just say he didn't die, or say "I didn't like that roll, I'll reroll it for you."  In my mind... that thrill of dodging the death-roll adds to the excitement.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Mordrig

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Re: Mortality in games
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 10:16:38 AM »
100% Agree, we (you and I) use a similar system, not exactly the same, but keep the danger.

My Lack of Danger comment comes from the players not taking risks for fear of losing the character they invested so heavily in.  Risks must be taken to enjoy the game. 

Good discussion.