Topic: (Spacemaster/Rolemaster 2e hybrid) Cross-system skills cost way too much.

[Endless Rain]

I bought Spacemaster 2e recently, and skimmed through it a little, and there's one major problem. Characters with Rolemaster professions, which includes all spellcasters save the Telepath, spend ridiculous amounts of points to learn skills from Spacemaster. Characters with Spacemaster professions also spend tons of points on magic skills, and can't learn spells beyond level 5. (The Telepath is also a Mentalism semi-spellcaster, and doesn't suffer these restrictions.) Characters usually spend 15-25 skill ranks for each skill rank from the other game line. I'm having the campaign be in the future of the world from my D&D campaign, so I need classes that can do magic and learn technological skills. Is there anywhere I can find a fixed chart for this? I don't want to have to spend time completely redoing the chart.

[Cory Magel]

I don't think the professions from RM and SM were meant to be used with the other.

[Endless Rain]

It's advertised as being compatible, and there are rules for it, they're just way too imbalanced.

[rdanhenry]

The stuff included with SM was based on the idea of two cultures (one magic-centered, one tech-centered) coming into contact.

For genuine science fantasy, where you can reasonably expect to run across stuff like enchanted laser pistols or a lich with a cybernetic implant, some of the later numbered companions for RM2 had support, including a full revision of skills and some sample science fantasy professions. I don't recall exactly which book you should look for though.

[Cory Magel]

They are compatible in a sense, but it seems like you're trying to convert a character directly from one to the other without altering professions and, it's possible I'm wrong, but I don't think that was intended.  I think I would just use two professions and try to match up certain skills as reasonably as I can (i.e. a Crossbow skill would lend well to firing Rifle, etc).

[Endless Rain]

I'm thinking of having each RM profession use a SM profession's costs for SM-only skills, and vice-versa. A Fighter is treated as an Armsman for SM-only skills, a Telepath is treated as a Mentalist for RM-only skills, etc.

The stuff included with SM was based on the idea of two cultures (one magic-centered, one tech-centered) coming into contact.

I can see that now that I own the book, but when I got it I was expecting support for cultures that had both high tech and magic.

For genuine science fantasy, where you can reasonably expect to run across stuff like enchanted laser pistols or a lich with a cybernetic implant, some of the later numbered companions for RM2 had support, including a full revision of skills and some sample science fantasy professions. I don't recall exactly which book you should look for though.

It's Rolemaster Companion 6, I think.

[Cory Magel]

I'm thinking of having each RM profession use a SM profession's costs for SM-only skills, and vice-versa. A Fighter is treated as an Armsman for SM-only skills, a Telepath is treated as a Mentalist for RM-only skills, etc.

That sounds like as good a way to do it.  You might need to make some individual rulings on certain skills here and there, but so long as everyone is roughly on the same overall footing in the end I don't think it should pose a huge problem.

[rdanhenry]

For genuine science fantasy, where you can reasonably expect to run across stuff like enchanted laser pistols or a lich with a cybernetic implant, some of the later numbered companions for RM2 had support, including a full revision of skills and some sample science fantasy professions. I don't recall exactly which book you should look for though.

It's Rolemaster Companion 6, I think.

Yes. Several sections are useful for supporting a science fantasy campaign. I would even probably adopt the Unified Skill System introduced in RMC VI, if I were trying to run science fantasy using the RM2/SM2 rules; it brings all the skills needed together in one neat package.

[Aotrs Commander]

I'm thinking of having each RM profession use a SM profession's costs for SM-only skills, and vice-versa. A Fighter is treated as an Armsman for SM-only skills, a Telepath is treated as a Mentalist for RM-only skills, etc.

That's exactly what I do. It's pretty easy to work out an approximation, especially since the RM=>SM skills are the ones that come up most often and you can shoehorn all pure/hybrid spellcasters into True Telepath and all the semis into semi-telepath.

[Aotrs Commander]

Double post - sorry, ran out of editing time (wow, that's a short period...):

Just a note - I have discovered recently there are a few skills on the SMCoI dev point tables that don't have write ups, and a few write-ups that don't have a DP cost.

What follows is a list I have compiled myself and attempted to fix; hopefully it will save you some bother, though it took twenty years and someone else noticing it first for me to fully realise how much was skipped!

Airborne Assault: Renamed Airborne Combat (Arms Companion p69).

Armour Working: No description. Use unknown nor readily identifyable as General skill. *shrug* No idea!

Audiophile Technology: Cost as Music Technology

Audiovisuals: Cost as Play Instrument Category #1

Brain Washing: cost as Criminal Psychology

Bicycling: Cost as Driving.

Computer Tapping: Missing from the first set of SMCoI professions (Armsman onwards), extrapolated a cost from comparing cost of the second set (Investigator onwards)¹

Fluid systems: Bonus for the understanding of fluid mechanics.

Cybernetics/Cybernetic Engineering: Due to proofing errors, Cybernetics should have been Cybernetic Engineering and listed in the engineering skills category with the cost of Cybernetics. Skill description is under Cybernetic Engineering.

Genetics/Genetic Engineering: Due to proofing errors, Genetics should have been Genetic Engineering and listed in the engineering skills category with the cost of Genetics. Skill description is under Genetics.

Mechanical Diagnosis: Bonus for assessing the working condition of mechanical systems and diagnosing problems. This skill does not include the use of tech or multiscanners, but does include the use of diagnostic procedures which may include the use of information obtained from a scanner.

Skydiving: cost as Flying/Gliding

Streetwise: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Stone Lore: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Structural Engineering: Missing description, use the one in SMCoII for the expanded engineering/technical skills.

Stunned Maneouver: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Subduing: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Surfing: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Surgery: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Surveillance: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Survival: Missing description in SMCoI, see RMCoII

Tax Law: Bonus for understanding and application of laws pertaining to taxes. (This skill only applies for the use and understanding of legal methods, see Tax Evasion). This skill must be developed seperately for each culture, though similar skills may apply.

Toxin Identification: Renamed Poison Lore; see Poison Lore description, RoCoII



I also have personally changed all weapons skills (and directed spells) that cost of greater than 6 to 6 (and allowed the optinal use of RMC Combat companion combat styles or much broader weapon groups), and all vehicle weapon skills greater than 8 to 8. (I also have modified spell list aquisition a bit more heavily, but essentially again for the starting level, replaced any cost of greater than 8 with .

(I seriously considered a blanket "if greater than 8, replace with 8" across all skills, since 8 is about 20%-25% of your basic DP (though I do also allow a +25% of base DP for "background skills" which is nebulously defined as "any skill that isn't in your profession's primary area.")



¹For reference, I arrived at: Armsman/Pilot/Explorer/Med Tech 3/9, Systems Tech/Arms Tech 3/5, Elec Tech/Engineer 2/7, Researcher/Physician 4, Criminologist 2/4, Planetolosit/Telepath/Semi Telepath 5.

[Endless Rain]

I've ordered Companion 6, are there any other books needed to use it? I don't own any other books aside from the corebooks for each game.

[rdanhenry]

No, the science fantasy stuff is pretty self-contained there. You'll need SM for the tech and RM for the magic, but you have those. All of the companions had something to say for them, although there's some that I think were better done than others. The numbered companions are a mixed bag of various house rules that did not get a lot of editorial oversight.

Other RM2 material that could be helpful for science fantasy:

Spell User's Companion: Psion lists more tailored to a fantasy environment. Some of the spell lists could be useful as well, but mostly this would be the fantasy side.

For technology at the black powder stage, RMC IV has some rules for early firearms, but I get the impression you probably want more advanced.

RMC V: The Forcemage profession seems particularly well-suited to a science fantasy environment, with lists like Gravity Law and Magnetic Law. This also has some of the more useful crit tables for advanced settings: vibration (sonic weapons), shrapnel, stun, disintegration, neuro. I think a couple of those already have versions in SM, though.

The Construct Companion may also be useful, if you want to mix in magical machinery. It is for the RMSS/FRP version of Rolemaster, but it is well-written and contains a good deal of information on technology as it can be inserted into a fantasy campaign, with the advanced end including steamships, air ships, and those mole machines with a big drill on the nose. You would need to extrapolate to apply the principles to spacecraft, electric trains, and hovertanks, but it would provide a basis for doing so.

[markc]

BTW, I do like the SM2 books Armored Assault and Star Strike if you are looking for some more detailed rules on vehicle and starship construction.
MDC

[Endless Rain]

BTW, I do like the SM2 books Armored Assault and Star Strike if you are looking for some more detailed rules on vehicle and starship construction.
MDC

I've been thinking of getting them eventually, but not in the near future.

[Cory Magel]

I've been considering getting Star Strike for Spacemaster space combat.

[markc]

As I have said in the past I have mixed Star Strike with SM:P it does take some work but it can be done also note that the star ship construction rules are very different in some places and that can have a huge difference in your game.
MDC

[Endless Rain]

I have RMC VI now, and except for two skills that have costs that are way too high, the new tables work perfectly. Thank you so much for letting me know about the charts in RMC VI. Are there any other books I should get for my campaign? Right now I have the corebooks for both games, Creatures & Treasures 1, RMC VI, and Heroes & Rogues.

[Tommi]

There is also science fantasy setting for RM2: Dark space. That includes a lot science fantasy rules (more than RMC 6).  It is hard to find though. It is shame that Monte didn't do extra material for that.

Mid 90's I was player in a campaign combining Time Riders, Dark space and Cyber space. Worked very well. My char was Astral Traveller with main element gravity - nobody but GM knew that I was spelluser. Later I was Snee theologist using personal cloaking device (allowing me to look like a huge man) and power sword.
 Those days...
 

[egdcltd]

Dark Space is actually located in the Spacemaster universe, just beyond the Imperium's frontier. At least, according to the supplement; that may not be true Imperium canon.

[Tommi]

Yes, it can be but not definitely. It is in at least different timeline and DS star systems are not real - main stars in SM2 are from real starmap.