Author Topic: Spell concept combining RM spell list with HARP spell scaling options  (Read 1628 times)

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Offline tbigness

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This is a base concept I wanted to look at working. It gives the base of a spell such as firebolt at a base level of access like in RM Spell Law but instead of repeating the spell multiple times with an extra ability like Firebolt V, it provides scaling options like HARP. This is used to customize spells on the fly as long as the total cost of Spell + scaling options is the list Rank total or lower. Using RMU Size Categories for elemental spells with Fire Bolt starting as a Tiny attack this would put the spell as cost of 2 PP base. Add to that any increase damage category, or Increase in distance with additional PP cost would equal total spell PP cost. This cannot exceed the ranks in Fire Law.

Example.
Fire Bolt PP2
Increase Size category PP3 / increase Max Large Size
Increase Range 50' PP 2 / Max 500'

So a Fire Bolt that is Small Size that goes 200 feet =
2                               +    6              +  4      =  12 PP

This does things multi-fold:
1. Spells are only listed one time on the spell list
2. Allows access to beneficial spells at lower level with lower impact
3. Allows for custom spells to be added in the scheme
4. Allows for on the fly customization which will give casters a way to make a big impact at a cost of PP or a minor impact to conserve PP
5. Will encourage further improvement of a spell list for better customization
6. Allows custom spells not associated to a Spell List to be developed singularly or the use of Cantrips that don't have a List they belong to (Harp Cantrips are great)

So I will post my concept for a list, this one using Fire Law, and an Excel spread sheet of what I have translated for spells with base Rank cost, Scaling cost, and spell description. The second one is not a list organized spreadsheet but a general list of spells I was working on. this will then go into a spreadsheet or database and organized into list with full description to auto-populate (yes I have dreams too). You will also notice that this may cut out some Spell List or the Base will be cheaper than the RM Spell List spells. That is intended for scaling purposes. Also remember that this is Rank based and not Level based. so at Level 2 with 6 ranks in a list, would be considered 6 for power or duration of a spell not 2nd.

Tell me what you think so far.
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Offline tbigness

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Example.
Fire Bolt PP2
Increase Size category PP3 / increase Max Large Size
Increase Range 50' PP 2 / Max 500'

So a Fire Bolt that is Small Size that goes 200 feet =
2                               +    6              +  4      =  12 PP


In this example what wasn't clear is that the Size increase was 2 increments at 3 each for a total 6 and the distance was base 100' plus 2 increments of 50' for a total of 4.
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Offline tbigness

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Also waiting on approval of attachments.  ;)
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Offline Ecthelion

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You might want to take a look at the Scalable Spells for RMSS/FRP article on TGC.

Offline jdale

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The downside of using the existing lists this way is that some lists as written have more variety but fewer scaling options (in the form of higher level versions of effects), while other lists provide less variety and more scaling options. If you always provide the full suite of scaling options, the lists with more variety are always superior. The GC article gets around this by only including scaling options that are already present on the list (although in the notes it contemplates removing that limitation). Probably the real solution would be to create new lists that have a consistent but greatly reduced number of slots, standardizing how many base effects are possible per list. That's a lot more work, though, and still isn't perfect since some kinds of effects are more scalable than others.
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Offline tbigness

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Realizing that options may vary pending spells will also allow for newer spells to be introduced into a list for a consistent say 15 spells per list. The scaling options may be more profound in a list verses another true but that is not really a balancing issue. The process here is to have more flexibility than the normal RM spell list and to be able to have individual spells that can be added to a list or be a spell by itself without needing a list.

Looking at the way the current lists work is just repetitive spells with more ability going higher levels. This is not really a true list as you are not learning new spells just old spells with an added function. This takes up spell slots in the list and nothing else.

One can very the list for Open, Closed, and Base by the initial ranks of the spell based on the list such as Shock bolt:

Magician    2 Ranks  cost
Brilliance    6 Ranks  cost

The cost for scaling can be the same and otherwise unaffected. I am bored with Spell Law as it is the same thing over and over with no variation, control or has customization built into the list. Some would argue that there is always Spell Research, but the rules are ambiguous at the best with not much guidelines. also there is no room for Cantrips and the like that anyone should be able to get which I have always liked in a system.

RMU is suppose to be a new system which combines the old with the new. Why not have a combined way for Spells using RM Spell List with HARP scalability and options? Otherwise it is the same old Spell Law with a new system.
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Offline Bruce

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I am not sure this will work well with balancing.
The HARP spell system was created off of the RM spell lists so as to retain something like a spell list but also to keep the idea that your spells can be better the more you develop them. Basically the HARP spells are the RM spell lists broken down into singular spells. Adding a scaling option to certain spells makes them a little more powerful. I have read that one of the goals in Rolemaster Unified was to make the spell casting professions a little more balanced with the non spell using professions because they currently are a little more powerful than the non spell using professions.
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Offline tbigness

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That is because the spells will always out balance the non-spell professions due to the advantage of spells. The thing I love about HARP was the scaling of spells with the balance of ranks put into them. That can cross with the RM spell list as they are essentially the same. The spells repeat multiple times but have a little more function at the higher level just like scaling. There is not much difference only the choice of what to add for effect if one opts to use scaling.
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