Author Topic: Rolemaster SRD  (Read 9710 times)

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Offline Arioch

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Rolemaster SRD
« on: August 19, 2016, 04:00:54 AM »
Has ICE ever considered creating a Rolemaster (or HARP) SRD or realeasing the rules under some sort of Open Gaming Licence?
Do you think it would help increasing the game's popularity?
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline kwickham

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2016, 02:34:11 PM »
Has ICE ever considered creating a Rolemaster (or HARP) SRD or realeasing the rules under some sort of Open Gaming Licence?
Do you think it would help increasing the game's popularity?

I haven't seen anything. I've only seen that Nicholas doesn't want to use any OGL classes/profession material in RMU.

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2016, 03:04:47 PM »
An Open Gaming license would provide no benefit to us. It only made sense for Wizards in 3e because they had the largest of all fan bases and needed other companies to produce support products that would sell on a much smaller scale.

If someone wants to write for Rolemaster or HARP, submit a proposal, if it makes sense, then we create a contract, and if the writer completes the manuscript, then we push it through to publication and ensure the writer gets paid.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
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Offline Warl

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 03:17:22 PM »
Right, as Nicholas presents it, there is no benefit to an OGL for Smaller game companies, which is Why None of them are doing it.
The Only thing an OGL does with smaller game companies is allows freelancers to skip the process of approval by the Primary Licensing company and Avoids having to pay the primary IP company any royalty of licensing fee.

For a Small company, this only hurts them, as they are then trying to having their own supplemental material compete with others who are not contributing to the support of the company.

Here is absolutely Nothing wrong with just using the freelancer submission process with a Company Like ICE. If your product is at all worthwhile, both sides will benefit.

Although a Lot of good material came out of the WOTC OGL process, the larger majority of it was Subpar and if one wanted to find a Gem, one had to filter through everything on the shelf to find it. Why? Because anyone could publish anything. And though X GM/Writer Might think his stuff is good, and Not really put it through any proper editing (let alone play testing) because it is good enough for him.
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Offline Arioch

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 03:30:42 AM »
Right, as Nicholas presents it, there is no benefit to an OGL for Smaller game companies, which is Why None of them are doing it.

Well, that's not entirely true. There're quite a few games released under OGL, Creative Commons or similar licences, even by small or indipendent game companies.
In some cases (take, for example, Fate or Dungeon World) the OGL contributed to the game's popularity.
After all, every third party module and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game. Plus, people would still need the main rules (and arms law charts! ;D) to run them.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 07:40:26 AM »
The publisher of Dungeon World appears to have only published its core rules. Everything else is by other publishers.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 10:59:19 AM »
If you're trying to run a profitable business that is a legitimate source of income you don't want people creating content for your system without you making anything on it.  There's not enough money in the RPG industry to seriously contemplate that aside from WotC, which really cannot be used as an example in many cases as they are a fairly glaring exception to the rule.  I'll be surprised if you can find me a RPG company that employ even 10% of the workers that WotC does at a corporate level.

With a company like ICE there's also no real reason, in my opinion, for a small time writer/designer to go it on their own, unless maybe they want to write for an older version of RM, and ICE doesn't want that happening on any official level, so no OGL there either.  While I love RM and will always pick it as my RPG of choice I really don't think you're ever going to reach an audience significant enough to make it worth your while financially anyhow.  The newest version of ICE works on a set royalty basis (and unlike the older incarnations of ICE you'll actually see that money) and if you're just doing it as a labor of love there's always The Guild Companion.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 12:38:54 PM »
We pay either set royalty or flat fee, depending on the nature of the product  and/or author preference. Regardless we pay.

We are happy to look at proposals for HARP (there's a wish list which we will add to over time) and early suggestions for RMU. Adventures will still be published for RMC & RMSS/FRP  but you need to be able to deliver a manuscript quickly.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2016, 03:21:24 PM »
We pay either set royalty or flat fee, depending on the nature of the product  and/or author preference. Regardless we pay.
Ah, forgot about the flat fee.  I always preferred royalties.  Sick or swim based on the popularity of what I put out. :)

Quote
Adventures will still be published for RMC & RMSS/FRP  but you need to be able to deliver a manuscript quickly.
I assume this is just until RMU comes out?
- Cory Magel

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Offline Arioch

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2016, 04:45:51 AM »
The publisher of Dungeon World appears to have only published its core rules.

Which is a permanent Gold Pick on RPGNow. I think that making a free version of the rules available helped the game reach its current popularity.

I don't know, maybe having a free very basic version of RM rules (something like a quickstart, maybe with pregen characters) could be a way to spread the game to the new generations?

Anyway, you guys obviously know a lot more than me about publishing, I'm just tossing ideas  :D
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline egdcltd

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2016, 05:46:43 AM »
One thing I've suggested as a way of spreading the word would be to make a Pathfinder Shadow World Master Atlas, then giving RMU discounts to people who purchase it.
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Offline ob1knorrb

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 10:48:47 AM »
One thing I've suggested as a way of spreading the word would be to make a Pathfinder Shadow World Master Atlas, then giving RMU discounts to people who purchase it.
I think at one point there was a D&D 3.5 version of the Shadow World Master Atlas being worked on and I think near completion, but it got dropped for reasons I don't recall right now.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2016, 01:07:56 PM »
I think at one point there was a D&D 3.5 version of the Shadow World Master Atlas being worked on and I think near completion, but it got dropped for reasons I don't recall right now.

There was a d20 supplement, it apparently kept falling apart in layout if I remember correctly.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2016, 01:45:16 PM »
I think at one point there was a D&D 3.5 version of the Shadow World Master Atlas being worked on and I think near completion, but it got dropped for reasons I don't recall right now.

There was a d20 supplement, it apparently kept falling apart in layout if I remember correctly.

We had a d20 3.0 manuscript, layout gurus lost will to live trying to sort out stat blocks etc, 3.5 then arrived and this essentially drove everyone else to lose their will to live on the project.

Thereafter all our Shadow World system efforts were decided to be Rolemaster and in due course HARP.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline Warl

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 12:25:50 PM »
Right, as Nicholas presents it, there is no benefit to an OGL for Smaller game companies, which is Why None of them are doing it.

Well, that's not entirely true. There're quite a few games released under OGL, Creative Commons or similar licences, even by small or indipendent game companies.
In some cases (take, for example, Fate or Dungeon World) the OGL contributed to the game's popularity.
After all, every third party module and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game. Plus, people would still need the main rules (and arms law charts! ;D) to run them.

This is very debatable. Firstly Fate was an OGL use of Fudge, and Even Fudge would be considered a very small outlier small game.
Without providing factual numbers your assumption that the OGL helped Fates Popularity is pure speculation.
Even with the Kickstarter, 10,000 backers is Not a very large share of the market. It is also more likely that the Swell of the Kickstater Fad had more to do with it's Kickstarter success than any options of OGL publishing.

Dungeon World is a game with an even smaller following than Fate. It's Kickstarter didn't even have a 10th the backers that Fate had. So again, trying to make claims that an OGL Helped these Niche Market games within a Niche market is a huge stretch.

You would need some serious Concrete evidence to show that the OGL (reardless of people actually using the OGL to publish related products ) had an Impact on their popularity. I think you will be hard pressed to find such evidence.

Quote
and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2016, 04:18:18 AM »
Quote
and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.

This is not true. You can write and sell for hard cash supplements for OGL games. Your writer then earns money and the original game producer get the free advertising of their OGL game system.

Kwickam has released his Aiorskoru world as OGL and I have repurposed the blog posts I wrote to support and sold them on RPGnow, I have had 50+ downloads of it so far. That is just a single homebrew world and a few reproductions of free blog posts but it is proof of concept.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2016, 01:57:38 PM »
Quote
and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.
This is not true. You can write and sell for hard cash supplements for OGL games. Your writer then earns money and the original game producer get the free advertising of their OGL game system.
The company providing the OGL is the artist, not those taking advantage of it.  You're telling them to give product away for exposure.
This almost always sounds FAR more attractive to those who aren't trying to make money at what they do.

Quote
Kwickam has released his Aiorskoru world as OGL and I have repurposed the blog posts I wrote to support and sold them on RPGnow, I have had 50+ downloads of it so far. That is just a single homebrew world and a few reproductions of free blog posts but it is proof of concept.
Is he selling his world for a profit and has he seen those profits increase as a result of your making money on his OGL?  THAT would be proof of concept, not how much YOU have sold.
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Offline Arioch

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2016, 07:40:00 AM »
This is very debatable. Firstly Fate was an OGL use of Fudge, and Even Fudge would be considered a very small outlier small game.
Without providing factual numbers your assumption that the OGL helped Fates Popularity is pure speculation.
Even with the Kickstarter, 10,000 backers is Not a very large share of the market. It is also more likely that the Swell of the Kickstater Fad had more to do with it's Kickstarter success than any options of OGL publishing.

Dungeon World is a game with an even smaller following than Fate. It's Kickstarter didn't even have a 10th the backers that Fate had. So again, trying to make claims that an OGL Helped these Niche Market games within a Niche market is a huge stretch.

You would need some serious Concrete evidence to show that the OGL (reardless of people actually using the OGL to publish related products ) had an Impact on their popularity. I think you will be hard pressed to find such evidence.

As I've said, I'm no expert.
I think it's quite evident it had a huge impact on the d20 system popularity, but as Nicholas said, WotC is on a completely different level.
Yes, Fate and DW are a niche within a niche. Rolemaster is the same (actually, it's probably even more a niche than Fate, at the moment).
Hell, everything that isn't d&d is a niche within a niche! The RPG market isn't that big.
Do I have proof on the OGL impact on Fate/DW popularity? Of course not! I'm just curious, that's why I asked.

Quote
and supplement released is basically free advertising for the main game.
And this statement right here is the equivalent of telling an Artist or Musician that they should provide work in exchange for exposure.

Hmmm, no, as I see it, it's not really the same.
A more fitting analogy would be the Musician letting a tribute band perform and sell their own CDs (do they even sell CDs anymore? :o), provided they have a sign that says "Official XXX Tribute Band" when they play or put a sticker with the same phrase on their CDs.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2016, 07:25:29 PM »
A more fitting analogy would be the Musician letting a tribute band perform and sell their own CDs (do they even sell CDs anymore? :o), provided they have a sign that says "Official XXX Tribute Band" when they play or put a sticker with the same phrase on their CDs.
An OGL lets you write new material for someone else's system, not sell what they've already put out.  Generally such licenses disallow you to publish the core rules, but rather merely allow you to create additional material.  However, why wouldn't I just have that person submit the material to my game company and pay them a royalty?  Why would I remove my ability to make money on that unless I just don't care about making money?

People talk about WotC doing this, the OGL, but they forget that WotC ended up of the opinion that it was a mistake.
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Offline Warl

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Re: Rolemaster SRD
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2016, 09:14:26 PM »
afteral, WOTC hasn't given an OGL for 4th or 5th edition.

Also, oddly enough, neither has pathfinder.
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