Author Topic: 0-Level Stats?  (Read 1711 times)

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Offline Eirvit

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0-Level Stats?
« on: January 20, 2018, 12:03:24 PM »
Hi, all! I’m running MERP while using RM2 as reference/supplement, and, while I’ve seen mention of 0-level characters, I’m not sure what they mean mechanically. What am I missing, or how have you all interpreted this? For simplicity, does this mean unmodified rolls on the attack tables? Or -25 (but most characters would have an Apprenticeship period, so this can’t be true for all skills).

Since my PCs are all Level 1 (just starting), some 0-level adversaries are attractive to me.

Offline Hurin

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 02:43:31 PM »
Level 0 is the apprenticeship level for characters in Rolemaster. So when you roll up a new character, you essentially level up (spend development points) twice: once for level 0 and again for level 1. This allows first level characters to be a bit more competent than they would be if they only had one round of spending dev points.
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Offline Prince Finnion

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 09:29:46 AM »
Level 0 can also be considered your adolescence, the things you learned growing up.  Level 1 is when you graduate from high school and think you know everything :)

Offline Jenkyna

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 09:52:36 AM »
In the ERA implementation of RMC you level from level 0 to level .5, and this is considered preadolescent development. You then level from level .5 to level 1 and this is considered adolescent development. You begin play at level 1+.

You might think of it as a reflection of the fact that learning is a lifelong thing that starts in very early childhood (level 0,) but real world professional experience i.e. level 1+ begins in adulthood.

In feudal societies you could replace the term adolescent development with apprenticeship if you prefer.

In concept putting players up against a level 0 character is essentially having them fight children.  I can see how in a MERP game this might make sense if the players had invaded an Orc warren, and were then set upon by very young Orcs.

Offline Eirvit

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2018, 11:33:45 AM »
Thanks, everyone, for clarifying this for me!

I certainly don’t think my PCs should be fighting children! I suppose I had the mindset that not everyone in a campaign world has adventuring classes or experience in adventuring so therefore the majority of NPCs would be “Level-0.” But what other classes are there? Perhaps iterations after RM2 develop this consideration, but, as I said, right now I’m working with MERP and RM2.

I suppose a possibility for low-level merchants/peasants/what-have-you would be to halve the bonuses in the most approximate class in the NPC charts.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2018, 11:43:51 AM »
Thanks, everyone, for clarifying this for me!

I certainly don’t think my PCs should be fighting children!

No, no, no.... wellllll.... maybe.   ;D

I did make up a PC who was only 14 years old or so, a child trying to become a squire to eventually become a Cavalier.  The GM was running through him through (Candidate, Page, Squire, Journeyman, Cavalier) his paces and by level 5 he would be a Cavalier.  Naturally, the games were geared towards encounters that a 14 year old would have while competing against or interacting with others his age.

The Level0/level 1 could be described as just out of adolescence if it fits with the PC's age, but it's more a reflection of the "adventuring experience."  A Level 1 14 year old would have as much adventuring experience as a 19 year old Level one PC, as much as a 24 year old level 1 PC - i.e.: 1 XP.     Level 1 just signifying that they haven't left the comfort and safety of home to go out into the big cruel world.
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Offline Jenkyna

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2018, 07:22:45 PM »


I suppose a possibility for low-level merchants/peasants/what-have-you would be to halve the bonuses in the most approximate class in the NPC charts.

The companions for the RM2 system included additional professions like the "No Profession" Profession, Professional, Trader, Farmer, Scholar etc. They are worth picking up, and as long as you don't want mint condition they shouldn't be too bad on ebay. You can get companion I from RPGNow as a modern pdf.

The Level0/level 1 could be described as just out of adolescence if it fits with the PC's age, but it's more a reflection of the "adventuring experience."  A Level 1 14 year old would have as much adventuring experience as a 19 year old Level one PC, as much as a 24 year old level 1 PC - i.e.: 1 XP.     Level 1 just signifying that they haven't left the comfort and safety of home to go out into the big cruel world.

What constitutes an adult will vary from society to society based on a variety of factors. In many cultures even today a person isn't socially regarded as an adult until they marry. In those cultures you can be considered a child at age 28 by your peers even when those same societies may confer legal adulthood at a specified age like 18 or 21.

In Feudal society a person might be married at 14 and be expected to be able to support themselves, their spouse, and any children they produced. That was about the same for the US Colonial period too. In Feudal Japan the son of a Samurai might begin training to be a warrior as young as age 4. Iirc the most famous samurai in their history, Miyamoto Musashi, killed a man in a formal duel when he was in his early teens.

In fantasy cultures I would say the idea of when someone is expected to leave the nest and fend for themselves makes more sense than an arbitrary age like 18 or 21. A 14 year old squire makes total sense to me in the context you provide.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 06:48:47 AM »

The companions for the RM2 system included additional professions like the "No Profession" Profession, Professional, Trader, Farmer, Scholar etc. They are worth picking up, and as long as you don't want mint condition they shouldn't be too bad on ebay. You can get companion I from RPGNow as a modern pdf.

The Professional profession is really handy.  The group I was with wanted to hire out a blacksmith to travel with them for weapon and armour repairs.  Figuring he'd be with the group quite a bit, I rolled up a blacksmith using the Professional template.  It worked out so well, I ended up playing him as a PC in a couple of other games.  I had a Jeweler-type professional as well.  The reality was that he was a con-man so I invested in the duping and sleight of hand and hide item skills.  He would swap out the higher value gems with those of lower value when the opportunity arose.

The Heroes and Rogues Companion is a great book to have on hand.  It has a variety of classes, two builds for the core professions, a back story, items, stats, and skills for various levels and a back story for key events at each level such as the reason the NPC now has that dagger, or why he looks like he's 90 years old when he's only 35.  I believe it's level 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 15?  I'd have to look back at the book for the specifics.  I've used that book as a quick reference so many times.  It's invaluable to me when I need something on the fly like when the party decides they want to hire a Seer to travel with them and I hadn't planned on them even encountering a Seer.
If discretion is the better valor and
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Offline Raizenbrayne

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 01:33:38 PM »
Never thought about it with RM2, which I’m only a novice with anyway, but I’ve tried ‘0-level’ characters two ways in MeRP:

The first is pretty straightforward and logical. Since 1st level characters are assumed to have 10,000(?) xp under their belts, just give them an amount less than that, give them no profession (and thus no profession development points), and there you go. The downside is that there’s little room for variation between characters outside of hobby ranks, at least until they level into a profession.

The second method was to start everyone off with the civilian profession, call that ‘level 0’, and then let them pick an adventuring profession once they level up. This does essentially give them a free level, but it’s pretty much all in background skills that rarely see play, so I didn’t notice a difference. You do have to fiddle here and there with how to interpret level bonuses.

Offline Eirvit

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2018, 09:03:27 PM »

The companions for the RM2 system included additional professions like the "No Profession" Profession, Professional, Trader, Farmer, Scholar etc. They are worth picking up, and as long as you don't want mint condition they shouldn't be too bad on ebay. You can get companion I from RPGNow as a modern pdf.



The Professional profession is really handy.  The group I was with wanted to hire out a blacksmith to travel with them for weapon and armour repairs.  Figuring he'd be with the group quite a bit, I rolled up a blacksmith using the Professional template.  It worked out so well, I ended up playing him as a PC in a couple of other games.  I had a Jeweler-type professional as well.  The reality was that he was a con-man so I invested in the duping and sleight of hand and hide item skills.  He would swap out the higher value gems with those of lower value when the opportunity arose.

The Heroes and Rogues Companion is a great book to have on hand.  It has a variety of classes, two builds for the core professions, a back story, items, stats, and skills for various levels and a back story for key events at each level such as the reason the NPC now has that dagger, or why he looks like he's 90 years old when he's only 35.  I believe it's level 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 15?  I'd have to look back at the book for the specifics.  I've used that book as a quick reference so many times.  It's invaluable to me when I need something on the fly like when the party decides they want to hire a Seer to travel with them and I hadn't planned on them even encountering a Seer.

Thanks, both! I think I’ll pursue your recommendations. I know the “No Profession” is available in the Optional Rules of my own RM2 Character Law. I had overlooked Heroes and Rogues, thinking it would be little more than the NPC stats already provided. (I’m also holding Castles & Ruins and Sea Law in my DriveThru Wish List, incidentally.)

Offline Jenkyna

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 12:25:55 AM »
Thanks, both! I think I’ll pursue your recommendations. I know the “No Profession” is available in the Optional Rules of my own RM2 Character Law. I had overlooked Heroes and Rogues, thinking it would be little more than the NPC stats already provided. (I’m also holding Castles & Ruins and Sea Law in my DriveThru Wish List, incidentally.)

Companions 2 - 6 have the civilian professions. At least according to a spreadsheet I complied awhile back.

RoCo II - Dancer, Scholar, Trader
RoCo III - Farmer, Craftsman, Sailor, Crafter, Professional

IV, V, and VI have some like Leader, Romantic, and Free Thinker. I didn't check all the descriptions, so there may have been a few more. Some of them may have had trade spell lists too. It's been a long time since I read all the lists in those companions, so I'm not 100% sure about that part.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: 0-Level Stats?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 08:18:25 AM »

Thanks, both! I think I’ll pursue your recommendations. I know the “No Profession” is available in the Optional Rules of my own RM2 Character Law. I had overlooked Heroes and Rogues, thinking it would be little more than the NPC stats already provided. (I’m also holding Castles & Ruins and Sea Law in my DriveThru Wish List, incidentally.)

Sea Law was my most recent addition until I started binge-buying every Shadow World companion I could get my hands on. LOL  Sea Law is excellent.  Tons of info, but obviously, more geared towards ocean bound adventures. 

Heroes and Rogues is well worth the purchase.  I've based smaller campaigns off of the NPC's I the book.  Some players ended up with the goodies when they offed one of them.  It was great to have that background info from the book.  It added a lot more meat to the back story and they players lover it.  My daughter has the whispy-ghost-armour shirt.  Encumbers as AT, protects as AT 16 I think.  It's previous owner wanted to be put out of his misery.... or so she says.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!