Author Topic: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )  (Read 6129 times)

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Offline Mordrig

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2017, 09:01:27 PM »
It is non magic, it is listed in Arms Law as a weapon.  Would you allow a player to pick a Longsword over a Broadsword?  How about a Pilum over a spear?  Perhaps a No-Dachi over a Two-Handed Sword?  Maybe they are a fishing folk and they want a Trident instead of a spear?  Perhaps they wish to use a Shuriken?  or a Cudgel?  All of those have a +5 to +10 bonus are they any different?  The character pays the higher cost and they take the different weapon. 

Offline Peter R

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2017, 04:00:26 AM »
It is non magic, it is listed in Arms Law as a weapon.  Would you allow a player to pick a Longsword over a Broadsword?  How about a Pilum over a spear?  Perhaps a No-Dachi over a Two-Handed Sword?  Maybe they are a fishing folk and they want a Trident instead of a spear?  Perhaps they wish to use a Shuriken?  or a Cudgel?  All of those have a +5 to +10 bonus are they any different?  The character pays the higher cost and they take the different weapon.

I did allow a player to take one, as Mordrig points out, it is a non magical weapon amongst many alternative weapons listing in Arms Law. They are also as rare as hens teeth and fairly early on all the characters were captured at the end of a combat that went against them and had their weapons and armour stolen. Finding another Long Kynac was extremely difficult. Eventually when the party reached a large city one could be found but for months the character was at half skill. As other members of the party upgraded with kit with either superior quality or magic weapons the Kynac wielder never once found an improved kynac. Not because of any bias from me it was just one never came up in the dice rolls.

With the Kynac and Long Kynac that is the balancing factor that you can take the risk of training in an extremely rare weapon and suffer the consequences if it is lost, broken or stolen. With the Pilum, yes it is superior but it is also a single use weapon, it is designed to break on impact. The Longsword vs Broadsword the longsword only had bonuses against certain ATs and penalties verses others. The Trident has 50% greater range penalties and is significantly shorter, 8' vs 10' so whether the GM would allow the trident to fight from the second row is less certain. The dagger vs Shuriken the dagger has a fumble range of 1-1 the shuriken has a fumble rage of 1-5. Each has a balancing factor. The No Dachi and Katana are slightly different in that they are cultural weapons and if you are playing in a Japanese setting then most combatants would be using weapons from the same culture so there is no advantage lost or gained if both sides are getting the same advantages. If the weapons are taken out of their culture then there is a temporary advantage until like the kynac above it is lost or broken and replacements cannot be found.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2017, 05:59:46 AM »
In Kulthea, the kynac (and long kynac) are also cultural weapons "limited to the Dùranaki of Tanara and a few obscure cults scattered across Kulthea."

...but then, pretty much *all* weapons are cultural weapons, as you may be challenged to find a proper _broadsword_ outside of European countries, for instance.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2017, 06:31:11 AM »
The long kynac is treated as a +15 rapier, and throwable to boot if I remember correctly. It doesn't make sense to let a player start with one unless you would also let them start with a +15 rapier.

Sounds like a very cool weapon.  I see no reason to not let a player take it, but it seems a little strong for a level 1 PC to start with.  The only way players started with +5, +10, +15 bonus items were from rolls on the Background Options tables.  There must be a reason that none of my players have ever taken it.  I'll take a look at it tonight.  If it is a cultural weapon (as mentioned in another post) that could be why, but I don't think I've ever restricted weapons based on cultural locations and I've had players choose rapier as their primary weapon too.

It is non magic, it is listed in Arms Law as a weapon.  Would you allow a player to pick a Longsword over a Broadsword?  How about a Pilum over a spear?  Perhaps a No-Dachi over a Two-Handed Sword?  Maybe they are a fishing folk and they want a Trident instead of a spear?  Perhaps they wish to use a Shuriken?  or a Cudgel?  All of those have a +5 to +10 bonus are they any different?  The character pays the higher cost and they take the different weapon.


I did allow a player to take one, as Mordrig points out, it is a non magical weapon amongst many alternative weapons listing in Arms Law. They are also as rare as hens teeth and fairly early on all the characters were captured at the end of a combat that went against them and had their weapons and armour stolen. Finding another Long Kynac was extremely difficult. Eventually when the party reached a large city one could be found but for months the character was at half skill. As other members of the party upgraded with kit with either superior quality or magic weapons the Kynac wielder never once found an improved kynac. Not because of any bias from me it was just one never came up in the dice rolls.

Very interesting points.  A lot of our PCs didn't put much stock into their starting weapons as the goal was to find better quality/magical items via adventuring.  Sounds like the kynac is just an extremely rare, toothed-bird and it does sound like finding an improved version of one is very difficult.  Not many players would refuse a really nice magically improved weapon just to stick with their rare, non-magical kynac.

However, the topic of the thread is a player's favorite weapon and this sounds like it's a very cool weapon to have.
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Offline Mordrig

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2017, 08:18:00 AM »
The character in question is now level 10, and still has never replaced it, because it is extremely rare and he can't find a magic one (I think there are 3 in the books).  Additionally, he did lose it, and was forced to fight with a stolen Scimitar, and then a falchion for a long while.  Finally he recovered it, but it was nasty for a long time.

Offline jdale

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2017, 09:39:55 AM »
I have a bit of a bias against fantasy weapons. Real melee weapons were designed and refined over centuries of combat and warfare. They are very good at what they are used for, within the limits of metallurgy and crafting capabilities of their period. A trade-off like the longsword, where you get a bonus against some armor types but a penalty against others, reflects design optimized for a certain type of combat, and is perfectly reasonable. But when you give a bonus against all armor types, you have to ask how that is possible. We tend to treat katanas as superior to broadswords but it's not really that the shape of the katana is so superior, the main advantage of the katana is that the metallurgy is better. It makes more sense to stat the weapons a bit more similarly, but then specify that katanas are normally made from high steel II, with the inherent bonus, and price them accordingly. That will scale better once you get to even better materials (e.g. if you make your katana out of mithril it should raise the bonus from +10 to +30 rather than adding an additional +30 on top of the bonuses it already gets for the high steel it's not made of).

So, why is a long kynac better? It could be that its makers have figured out a way to improve the shape of the weapon in a way that vastly improves its use, but then there's no reason why every culture exposed to this amazing development wouldn't have copied it, and it assumes that there is something universally inferior about the design of a rapier, which seems questionable. Or, there is something vastly improved about the metallurgy and crafting techniques that go into it, in which case it should be treated as being of superior materials (e.g. enchanted steel II or white alloy) which will give it a price appropriate for its value, a reason why other cultures can't copy it, and more realistic scaling if you try to use other materials to make one.
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2017, 10:32:55 AM »
I have a bit of a bias against fantasy weapons.
+1, and an excellent explanation.

Offline Mordrig

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2017, 01:15:42 PM »
I appreciate the argument, I understand where you are coming from.  In fact, I agree to a point.  This character uses the Kynac, he pays for it in that he cannot find a magic weapon.  He picked up a magic longsword, but once he recovered his Kynac the longsword was given away to a loyal retainer.  Culturally, that is his weapon, he will use other weapons, but a Kynac is his preference.

Offline Peter R

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2017, 03:12:27 AM »
In Kulthea, the kynac (and long kynac) are also cultural weapons "limited to the Dùranaki of Tanara and a few obscure cults scattered across Kulthea."

...but then, pretty much *all* weapons are cultural weapons, as you may be challenged to find a proper _broadsword_ outside of European countries, for instance.

True but the stereotypical fantasy setting is very Eurocentric so I assumed that to be the lowest common denominator for weaponry.

I didn't actually realise that they came from Shadow World as I don't run that setting. The character in my example was actually in Middle Earth. The weapon just ended up in the game as we saw it in Arms Law.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2017, 10:56:39 AM »
So, why is a long kynac better?
If you go by its Kulthea description, it's because "it's only effective when constructed along very specific design parameters, and when employed by combatants who have been specially trained in their use."

Quote
It could be that its makers have figured out a way to improve the shape of the weapon in a way that vastly improves its use, but then there's no reason why every culture exposed to this amazing development wouldn't have copied it, ...
Cost, difficulty to forge? People usually assume that if a weapon is superior, everyone would just have one and it would become widespread, which is absolutely wrong. One of the main factor that makes it widely adopted is its price and easiness to create and repair. The Ch&CL law does have its price so, really, a long kynac may just be as expensive as a +15 rapier and be treated as such, being better because always made of superior alloy and by more expert blacksmiths (because of its "very specific design parameters") so not "every culture exposed to this amazing development" copied it because they could do the same (a +15 rapier) without having to find out what these "very specific design parameters" are.
In other words, mayhap the process to forge a long kynac is so complex and expensive, it's just not worth it, but for a few people for whom it has a cultural meaning (the Dùranaki) or a religious one (a few obscure cults).
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2017, 01:56:23 PM »
I have a bit of a bias against fantasy weapons....


Well put.  Excellent example.
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Offline tbigness

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2017, 03:48:15 PM »
I have put this as more of an Elven Cultural weapon in my campaigns. Being more rare to others but common to the Elven heritage. I would allow background exceptions for the weapon as long as it was explained on how attained and trained.
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Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: What is your favorite weapon (Even the spell casters have one :-) )
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2017, 12:22:23 PM »
I tend to use cultural weapons as well, but I also have players roll for origin which restricts some of them. In other cases possession of a cultural weapon by someone not of that culture is considered a deadly insult. That's led to some interesting situations...
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