Author Topic: HARP social combat  (Read 1562 times)

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Offline Bruce

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HARP social combat
« on: December 21, 2016, 09:17:33 PM »
I have been enjoying many other game systems in the last two years and I have noticed a few things. New mechanics are coming out that are putting many other older systems out of date. One such thing I found that both HARP and Rolemaster are missing is social combat. I have been beating my brain trying to figure out a way to do social combat without adding anything new to HARP and using the current mechanics. I finally have come up with what looks like a viable option.
Here  is my idea:
Social combat is done just like normal combat with opponents taking turns attacking each other.
Social combat will either use one of 3 stats (Reasoning, Insight, or Presence) or use the Will resistance score. Alternately if one has an appropriate Influence skill that can be used (GM’s discretion). The first attacker then choose either which stat or the Will RR to attack. Basically the stat or Will RR being targeted is the amount of points one has.
Social combat can be done one of 2 ways:
1. Use an Influence skill against either the Reasoning, Insight, or Presence stats.
2. Use a stat vrs stat competition (must be the same stat).
Resolution will be done on the RR column of the Maneuver table.
The attacker first makes an attack roll using whatever stat they are attacking (or an appropriate Influence skill at the GM's discretion) and looks up the result on the RR column.
The defender then must roll and make the RR using whatever stat the opponent is attacking (an appropriate Influence skill can be used at the GM's discretion) for the RR. Any result less than the full RR is subtracted from the target stat. Once that number gets below zero the defender loses and gives in.

If either decides to just roll and not role play the social combat then a negative modifier will be assigned (-5 to -20, not sure yet) to each one not role playing. Role playing the social combat can also give a bonus of +5 to +20.

One basic rule is that both parties must be able to understand each other.

Note that these rules are tentative and are more than likely to change based on balance and game play issues.


What do you all think?

Bruce
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Offline enoch

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Re: HARP social combat
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 07:16:00 AM »
I've never heard of "social combat" before.  Is it basically just arguing?

Offline Bruce

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Re: HARP social combat
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2016, 08:33:14 PM »
I've never heard of "social combat" before.  Is it basically just arguing?
It can be, but it is more commonly called debating and sometimes bartering. I think a more appropriate term is verbal combat, though adding "combat" to the term in either case may cause some confusion.
In a couple of games I have played you can use social combat to talk someone into or out of doing something. A good example are hostage negotiators or suicide prevention people.
Social combat can be used to avoid physical combat in some cases. I know that this is usually done with one roll in HARP and RM as it is in just about every other older RPG out there. But this adds the idea of role playing the debate out much like a normal combat would be done where you can slowly reduce the opponents resolve down to the point they give in. It can add some intense moments to a game session involving only verbal interaction.
The idea of social combat is to add more role play to a RPG session and it can make for some really good and interesting game sessions without having to include actual physical combat.

Imagine if a party trying to get within a stronghold of some kind were able to simply talk their way past the guards instead of killing them, maybe even convincing them to help without the need for a charm spell or something similar.

Note that sometime in the next week I will be clarifying rules somewhat. I will hitting on things like what attacking the different stats means and possibly how one would go about it.
For example; Attacking the reasoning of your opponent may mean you are arguing against the logic they are using to stand their ground. Attacking their Insight may mean you are arguing against what they understand about the situation. Attacking their Will RR may include some kind of intimidation and making them believe it is just not worth trying to convince you to their point of view. Attacking their Presence may actually be used to raise up an audience against your opponent or even attacking their own self esteem. I may add Self Discipline to the list as it seems like it could fit with social combat.

Note that this may even become a submission as either an article in the Guild Companion or possibly the Guild Adventurer. I'll see how far I get in this next week while I am off from work.
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Offline dagorhir

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Re: HARP social combat
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2016, 07:41:58 AM »
I called it an Influence Encounter, as opposed to a combat encounter. It has is own initiative bonus and uses the various influence skills vs the will resistance skill.

I was using the Presence stat as Influence Points (IP), and every time the influence skill "attack" would beat the Will Resistance it would reduce the IP.

The first character to reach 0 IP would lose the influence contest.

It still needs some work and I wanted to create an Influence critical table as well, but I never did.

Offline Bruce

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Re: HARP social combat
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2016, 01:50:26 PM »
I called it an Influence Encounter, as opposed to a combat encounter. It has is own initiative bonus and uses the various influence skills vs the will resistance skill.

I was using the Presence stat as Influence Points (IP), and every time the influence skill "attack" would beat the Will Resistance it would reduce the IP.

The first character to reach 0 IP would lose the influence contest.

It still needs some work and I wanted to create an Influence critical table as well, but I never did.

Yeah that is basically what I have done with the social combat rules I have above. My system is a little more comprehensive with the attacker being able to choose the target stat. To me using the Will RR bonus as the target stat means you are not really trying to convince or change their mind you are just wearing them down to where they give in. Attacking the other stats has different meanings and effects. With the rules I am using you could literally change the targets point of view if not just for a short time.
A crit table is interesting but I don't think it is viable for this, though I could be convinced otherwise if you ever produce and share such it.
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Offline GMLovlie

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Re: HARP social combat
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2016, 01:20:39 PM »
These are good ideas. *Yoinked!* :pirate:
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Offline Bruce

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Re: HARP social combat
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2016, 11:18:52 AM »
These are good ideas. *Yoinked!* :pirate:
:police: :stop:
It is still in the development stage and there will probably be some changes here and there.
Glad you like it though!
When you game, game like you mean it! Game Hard!