Author Topic: 50th level "Mastery Spell"  (Read 1328 times)

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Offline Fingolfin80

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50th level "Mastery Spell"
« on: November 06, 2017, 11:05:47 AM »
I have a small problem understanding how to use 50th level spells that allow you to cast one lower level spell on the same list each round.
As far as I understand, if you cast such spell you don't need to make a SCM for each individual spell, you succeed automatically. But how about Power Points? Do I need to expend power point for each spell I cast? Since the previous bonus alone seems good but not incredible for the rich cost of 50 PP I would say no, but I don't see it explained anywhere.

Offline jdale

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Re: 50th level "Mastery Spell"
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 01:24:09 PM »
For a caster capable of casting a 50th level spell, automatically making the SCM is not a meaningful benefit at all. I would certainly assume the PP are already paid by the original spell.
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Offline Sable Wyvern

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Re: 50th level "Mastery Spell"
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 07:07:50 PM »
No prep, no PP cost, no ESF or SCSM.

I would apply normal spell failure chances and consequences (ie, 01 - 02 UM, and some higher results for BARs and EARs), but that's it.

Offline Fingolfin80

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Re: 50th level "Mastery Spell"
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 07:07:31 AM »
That's how I would rule it, but I find Spell Low wording a little ambiguous.
Thanks for clarifications.

Offline providence13

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Re: 50th level "Mastery Spell"
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 12:29:54 PM »
I can't say "all", but many of the spells I've seen state "caster can use/utilize any lower spell on this list each round". Or something to that effect. Not cast or even the old RM term, throw.

IMHO,
The one 50th lvl spell has already been cast. The effects of that one spell are the results of any lower lvl spell that the caster chooses. Like has already been said, PP have been spent. Caster can choose a different spell each round; max of 1 spell/rnd/lvl.
  I wouldn't say that there is any chance of spell failure for the additional effects because "the spell" (the 50th lvl spell) has already been cast.
It's like a Detect Essence 5'rad, 1 min/lvl. Instead of a different 5' rad, it's a different spell effect.

Do you use the original roll for all of the BAR/EAR effects..? Or do you make a BAR/EAR for each spell used? An awesome roll will make them all high (BAR/EAR), but a low roll on the initial spell would make them all weak. But making a roll per spell would open it up to failure (Unless the GM just wouldn't allow failure, since the spell has been cast).

Each spell would be just like normal, I guess. It would have full affects (duration/range/target..) as normal and the duration might last longer than the 50th lvl spell cast in the first place. 
Some of the 50th lvl spells are Utility (which might be different than the lower lvl spells on the List; some are not) and even though it doesn't state it, I guess they actually affect the caster, granting the ability to utilize the lower lvl 1/rnd.

If one of those lower lvl spells are Parried/Canceled, etc by another spell, are they affected like a 50th lvl spell? That is the spell that caused their effects.
This is a great question and has me thinking more about the structure of magic in my game. Thanks.
I've never had someone cast a 50th lvl spell. :)


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Offline Fingolfin80

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Re: 50th level "Mastery Spell"
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 05:29:08 AM »
I can't say "all", but many of the spells I've seen state "caster can use/utilize any lower spell on this list each round". Or something to that effect. Not cast or even the old RM term, throw.

IMHO,
The one 50th lvl spell has already been cast. The effects of that one spell are the results of any lower lvl spell that the caster chooses. Like has already been said, PP have been spent. Caster can choose a different spell each round; max of 1 spell/rnd/lvl.
  I wouldn't say that there is any chance of spell failure for the additional effects because "the spell" (the 50th lvl spell) has already been cast.
It's like a Detect Essence 5'rad, 1 min/lvl. Instead of a different 5' rad, it's a different spell effect.

Do you use the original roll for all of the BAR/EAR effects..? Or do you make a BAR/EAR for each spell used? An awesome roll will make them all high (BAR/EAR), but a low roll on the initial spell would make them all weak. But making a roll per spell would open it up to failure (Unless the GM just wouldn't allow failure, since the spell has been cast).

Each spell would be just like normal, I guess. It would have full affects (duration/range/target..) as normal and the duration might last longer than the 50th lvl spell cast in the first place. 
Some of the 50th lvl spells are Utility (which might be different than the lower lvl spells on the List; some are not) and even though it doesn't state it, I guess they actually affect the caster, granting the ability to utilize the lower lvl 1/rnd.

If one of those lower lvl spells are Parried/Canceled, etc by another spell, are they affected like a 50th lvl spell? That is the spell that caused their effects.

You make good points. My interpretation of the rule is that you cast automatically (so no spell failure chance), but you still need to roll to determine if the opponent can resist/avoid the attack, because you need a numeric value for that.
The spell level and other variable parameters, IMHO, are those of the spell you choose: my assumption is that the 50th level spell affects how you cast the lower level spell, not the spell itself. But of course I could be wrong.

This is a great question and has me thinking more about the structure of magic in my game. Thanks.
I've never had someone cast a 50th lvl spell. :)

Me neither, to be honest, but I'm customizing some aspects of magic to fit my setting and I need a deeper understanding of how these things work in order to avoid breaking the game.

Offline providence13

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Re: 50th level "Mastery Spell"
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 10:49:51 AM »
You make good points. My interpretation of the rule is that you cast automatically (so no spell failure chance), but you still need to roll to determine if the opponent can resist/avoid the attack, because you need a numeric value for that.
The spell level and other variable parameters, IMHO, are those of the spell you choose: my assumption is that the 50th level spell affects how you cast the lower level spell, not the spell itself. But of course I could be wrong.

Me neither, to be honest, but I'm customizing some aspects of magic to fit my setting and I need a deeper understanding of how these things work in order to avoid breaking the game.

RAW:
For RMSS/FRP Automatic Spell Casting occurs when there are no negative mods to the spell. You still roll to check for Spell Failure. Although some GM's may not require it. So you still roll, but it goes off without a hitch unless you roll 01-02 (01-04 for Arcane).
But yeah, you often will need a BAR/EAR number to determine RR mods.. etc. But if those #'s aren't needed, you just roll to see if it fails.
"Conditions Required For Automatic Spell Casting" section under the heading Casting Spells.
(I'm still not convinced that the effects of the 50th lvl spell require re-Casting/Auto-Casting, just like my Detect Essence example, above. I could change my mind as our game progresses.)

My game is not 100% RAW, maybe a good 70%. Everyone's game will vary. :)

{post edited for clarity, I hope.}
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