Author Topic: Injury recovery times  (Read 2333 times)

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Offline Jengada

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Injury recovery times
« on: November 28, 2017, 10:31:49 AM »
One of the PCs in my campaign got critted Sunday, and now has a broken arm with a -75 penalty. (Table said leg, but that wasn't realistic so now it's arm.) I've rarely had anyone with so bad a crit penalty, but I let it stick. The party hasn't enough gold to pay for a magical heal, so he's stuck with having a nonmagical healer set the bone and letting it heal.
The RM2 ChL healing table says that healing time is determined by a d%+CO bonus roll on the table, and the time is multiplied by 10 for serious wounds. That gives a 33% chance, basically, of rolling "1 day" and thus getting 10 days to heal the bone. This seems absurdly low for an arm broken so badly that the character is at -75.
Should the injury penalty be applied to the d% roll, even if that's not RAW? That would pretty much force the healing time to end up in the 30-50 day range for this case, and that seems much more reasonable. Am I missing something in the nonmagical healing rules?
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 10:48:11 AM »
One of my players had that exact crit! LOL.  He was a Warrior Monk and Martial Arts was his only attack.  :D

Anyway, you have a couple of approaches.  The simplest and easiest (if you want it to be) is Herb Lore, Foraging, Region Lore.  Let the players look for the necessary healing herbs out in the wilderness.  There is a plethora of healing herbs that will reduce healing time, mend bone, etc.  There are regions and "difficulty" to find the herbs.  You can adjust that difficulty as needed.

The players didn't have enough gold?  Did one of them have a magical item they could sell or trade?  How badly does the player want to be healed?  "I'll heal that arm for you, but you don't have the gold... hmm that +15 Mithril dagger is very nice."  I've also sent players out on side quests in lieu of payment to a healer.  Leave an item as collateral until you get back from the dungeon crawl with lots of loot?

How realistic do you want your game to be?  Realistically, a broken bone takes a long time to heal and the bone can't be moved appreciably.  My son fractured his arm.  It wasn't a full break, but the cast kept the arm immobile for a couple of months even though the bone was healed.  30-50 days sounds reasonable for total healing as you said, however the immobility (-75) could be more due to the sling or cast the player wears, not so much from the broken bone itself.  I caught my son several times with the sling off playing video games because it was easier to play without it (-75 to Call of Duty Skill).

The original crit was to the leg and putting pressure on a leg bone while it's healing could very easily result in -75.  You adjusted the crit to reflect the arm damage for the sake of realism, but you should also adjust the penalty.  For months after my son's arm healed, he still complained of pain when trying to lift himself off the ground or when carrying something heavy.  I can only imagine that a broken femur would be much worse when supporting body weight, armour weight, backpack, jogging/running/dodging.  Compare that to a broken arm and jogging/running/dodging.
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Offline Jengada

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 10:53:26 AM »
Good points. The party is still coalescing and hasn't done a good treasure-trove adventure yet, so they have almost nothing worth trading. (The PC in question actually is the dirt-poorest party member, he can't even afford a real club and carries a stick as his weapon.) And a backlog of side adventures that are pulling them from the main track of the story. So trading or going on a side adventure are options I didn't think of, honestly, but don't work well. Your "lingering pain" point is a good one, though. I might leave a residual -10 or something on certain actions for 30-50 days.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 10:54:08 AM »
For fractures, you may use this (apparently professional since it's supposedly "compiled by radiologists and other health professionals from across the globe") site, that contains "average healing times of common fractures". This site translates the medical terms into layman's terms (since, well, most people probably don't know where the femoral shaft is located).
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 11:00:49 AM »
(The PC in question actually is the dirt-poorest party member, he can't even afford a real club and carries a stick as his weapon.)

Holy crap!!  That is pretty bad!  At least break off the leg of a chair or steal a dagger from the tavern. LOL
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Offline Jengada

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 11:04:57 AM »
(The PC in question actually is the dirt-poorest party member, he can't even afford a real club and carries a stick as his weapon.)

Holy crap!!  That is pretty bad!  At least break off the leg of a chair or steal a dagger from the tavern. LOL
Funny you should answer that way...It was a tavern brawl where he broke his arm. He seems to be obsessed with using rope in battle - last encounter, he tried to entangle a giant (60') snake with it, this time he was trying to rope a thug and throw him over the bar railing. His failure on that led to the thug clubbing him, and the crit in point.
One incentive for the brawl, though not the biggest, was that one of the others in the brawl had a metal dagger, and they're in a metal-poor country. His fellow PCs have now taken away his rope, and the bar confiscated the dagger at the end of the battle, to pay for the damage to the bar.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 11:11:08 AM »
(The PC in question actually is the dirt-poorest party member, he can't even afford a real club and carries a stick as his weapon.)

Holy crap!!  That is pretty bad!  At least break off the leg of a chair or steal a dagger from the tavern. LOL
Funny you should answer that way...It was a tavern brawl where he broke his arm. He seems to be obsessed with using rope in battle - last encounter, he tried to entangle a giant (60') snake with it, this time he was trying to rope a thug and throw him over the bar railing. His failure on that led to the thug clubbing him, and the crit in point.
One incentive for the brawl, though not the biggest, was that one of the others in the brawl had a metal dagger, and they're in a metal-poor country. His fellow PCs have now taken away his rope, and the bar confiscated the dagger at the end of the battle, to pay for the damage to the bar.

OMG, that is awesome!  I love the creativity with using a rope as a weapon.  My daughter's PC uses the Metal Whip.  It's a vicious, nasty weapon.  She severed an arm at the shoulder with a C-Slash crit. She also used it to subdue her brother's PC because he was starting fights with the wrong group of people. That crit ended with him having a broken arm too.  Hm... art imitates life.
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Offline Hurin

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 11:44:35 AM »
The site OLF listed says average healing time for a humerus fracture is 6-8 weeks (42-56 days). So 10 definitely is on the low side. But perhaps you could say it was just a hairline fracture; or perhaps (since this is a game with magic) people might think the fact that the wound healed so quickly was a miracle, indicating the favour of the gods. Personally, I would not extend the healing time if the character rolled really well for his healing; by the same token, I would not reduce the healing time if a character rolled badly.
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Offline Jengada

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 01:28:03 PM »
Personally, I would not extend the healing time if the character rolled really well for his healing; by the same token, I would not reduce the healing time if a character rolled badly.
Part of what concerns me is that, per the table and as I read it (which I may have done wrong), a 66+ roll for a bone injury yields "1 day". Then multiply by 5 for medium, 10 for severe. This is where I wondered if I should have applied the -75 to the roll, since it would guarantee 1 day->10 is not an option for such a significant injury to heal.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 01:34:16 PM »
If the healing time ends up being quicker than expected, it's also possible the injury was just less severe than it seemed at the time. I've certainly seen times when people thought something was broken and it ended up just being sprained, etc. The player will probably not complain if you tell him that, during the fight it sure felt like it was broken, but after a day of recovery it's pretty clear it wasn't.

I'm not familiar enough with the recovery rules in RM2 to comment on whether you are actually doing it right.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2017, 01:53:08 PM »
If the healing time ends up being quicker than expected, it's also possible the injury was just less severe than it seemed at the time. I've certainly seen times when people thought something was broken and it ended up just being sprained, etc. The player will probably not complain if you tell him that, during the fight it sure felt like it was broken, but after a day of recovery it's pretty clear it wasn't.

I'm not familiar enough with the recovery rules in RM2 to comment on whether you are actually doing it right.

I can attest to that.  I thought I had broken a bone in my foot from Martial Arts.  I took a step and the pain was so much I blacked out and collapsed.  After a trip to the ER and x-rays the doctor told me it was a bruised bone.  They usually hurt more than a clean break. A couple of days off my foot and I was OK again, a little sore still, but clearly not a break.
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Offline Hurin

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2017, 02:13:18 PM »
Personally, I would not extend the healing time if the character rolled really well for his healing; by the same token, I would not reduce the healing time if a character rolled badly.
Part of what concerns me is that, per the table and as I read it (which I may have done wrong), a 66+ roll for a bone injury yields "1 day". Then multiply by 5 for medium, 10 for severe. This is where I wondered if I should have applied the -75 to the roll, since it would guarantee 1 day->10 is not an option for such a significant injury to heal.

You did it correctly. The problem is not on your end, the problem is with the somewhat simplistic system in RM2 for dealing with this, where you can get very short healing times on even slightly above average rolls. This issue has been corrected in RMU, where the healing in this case would take 60 days (a result of 66 gives a base healing time of 6 days, which is then multiplied by 10 for severe injury). In RMU, characters would need to be superhuman (i.e. roll 176+) in order to get a 1 day base healing time.

The RMU chart, if you are interested, is on p. 113 of the beta2 Arms and Character Law. You could easily use it for your RM2 game to give more realistic healing times.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 04:00:37 PM »
I think there's also the playability factor. Sure, it'd be more realistic if your leg fracture takes eight weeks to heal, but how fun would it be (to have your character immobilized for such a time)? Probably not much, save if you have two PCs to alternate with, or six expendable clones.
So, I think the best solution is to explain your players that, sure, it's not very realistic but they should just handwave it, save they want not to play their character (or play him with a heavy modifier) for weeks.
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Offline Jengada

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 05:44:21 PM »
I think there's also the playability factor. Sure, it'd be more realistic if your leg fracture takes eight weeks to heal, but how fun would it be (to have your character immobilized for such a time)? Probably not much, save if you have two PCs to alternate with, or six expendable clones.
So, I think the best solution is to explain your players that, sure, it's not very realistic but they should just handwave it, save they want not to play their character (or play him with a heavy modifier) for weeks.
Yes, I'm trying to balance this with the fact that the player put his character in jeopardy doing this, and future scenarios. I don't want them to think "Oh, I don't really need to parry, I'll recover quickly." As our session broke up, one player commented "That'll be healed during regular travel time, so by next encounter, you'll be fine."  The times in the table are not increased for failure to rest - they're cut in half for bed rest or hospitalization.
I'm leaning towards the lingering minor penalty for a longer period, just a small reminder that actions can have long-term consequences.
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Offline Sable Wyvern

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 08:56:20 PM »
If your players aren't taking injury seriously, don't forget that there's a 75% chance of nerve damage, which heals slower and might include a permanent penalty.

Offline Jengada

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 09:33:17 PM »
If your players aren't taking injury seriously, don't forget that there's a 75% chance of nerve damage, which heals slower and might include a permanent penalty.
Can you tell me where the rules say that? If I'm decide to impose something permanent, I want to back it up. They would accept DM fiat, but I would still want to know where it is. Thanks!
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Offline Sable Wyvern

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 04:33:05 AM »
If your players aren't taking injury seriously, don't forget that there's a 75% chance of nerve damage, which heals slower and might include a permanent penalty.
Can you tell me where the rules say that? If I'm decide to impose something permanent, I want to back it up. They would accept DM fiat, but I would still want to know where it is. Thanks!

My apologies, I can find no such rule in RM2. It must have been introduced in RMSS.

If you're interested, the details can be found in RMFRP p76 or RMSR p130.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Injury recovery times
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 06:01:14 AM »
Yes, I'm trying to balance this with the fact that the player put his character in jeopardy doing this, and future scenarios. I don't want them to think "Oh, I don't really need to parry, I'll recover quickly." As our session broke up, one player commented "That'll be healed during regular travel time, so by next encounter, you'll be fine."  The times in the table are not increased for failure to rest - they're cut in half for bed rest or hospitalization.
I'm leaning towards the lingering minor penalty for a longer period, just a small reminder that actions can have long-term consequences.

That is a great approach to it.  I try to instill the importance of parrying and to not just go headlong into battle and expect to be instantly healed at the end of the encounter.  RM wasn't designed with that type of gameplay in mind (I believe) like other game systems appear to be.  Tabletop/arcade vs. realism.  Even if healed, there should be a lingering penalty of sorts, particularly if this player's M.O. is to just blast into combat or to pick fights with no fear of consequences or what price his teammates have to pay. 

What I found with the players I just brought into the game system is that they were more cautious because they didn't want to roll a new PC.  Hey, whatever works. LOL.  They take strategy and tactics into consideration before charging into battle.  At the last campaign we ran, the only tank in the group had his weapon arm shattered and when we pick up again, there are going to be lingering penalties to combat.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!