Topic: Power Point Multiplier Questions...

[Aotrs Commander]

Norath Deathbringer the Lich necromancer has Souldrinker his Ridiculously Larger Two-Handed Sword (though for the purposes of this argument, it could be his staff, rod or wand.) Among its many might powers¹ is that it is a x2 PP Multiplier (Necromancer).

So. How does this work?

Does Norath have to spend every moment holding his sword to make use of the x2 PP? What happens if he puts it down or is disarmed? Is that it until he rest for 8 hours? (How would a living spellcaster eat his breakfast if he has to hold his staff all the time?)

If he does lose it, how does his PP change? Does he just lose the "bonus" PP, assuming that PP starts out being used from the extra PP gained by the multiplier? Does he lose half of his current PP? Does he get it back if he picks it up again?

Or does, having attuned to it, does it being in his possession (i.e., it counts as "worn" if in the sheath).

Or does he has to have it in his hand to use it? I.e. is a PP multiplier basically filling up with a pool of PP when he rests equal to his regular PP (on an incremented version thereof for higher multipliers versions) that he just draws from during the course of the day²?)

This sort of question generally hasn't come up before for me, as the PCs generally have had worn items for PP multipliers, where this is not an issue.


¹Being +15 magic and inflicting an additional "C" Disruption critical...

²This actually might be the easiest way to resolve it; he could only use PP from this virtual pool when it's in his hand. If he drops it, no-one else can use it until they have a) attuned to it and b) they rested with it for eight hours, to fill it with a mirror increment of their own PP.

[intothatdarkness]

I usually took PPMs like this as being applicable so long as the item was in the character's possession. He didn't have to be physically holding it, but it had to somehow be in contact with his person (a sheathed sword, slung bow, and so on would count).

If the character lost/dropped/whatever the item, the 2xPPM would come into effect as soon as he regained the item and would apply only to the PPs he currently had available. When he lost the item, I'd normally reduce existing PPs by HALF of what he might have used (rounding down). So if he'd used 5 PPs before the item was taken, I'd reduce available PPs by 2.

I always viewed PPMs as amplifiers rather than pools of power. But that's just me.

[Peter R]

pretty much the same here. If the item is within the persons essence aura then it would work.

If they lost it I would divide the remaining PPs by the multiplier and the round in the players favour.

[B Hanson]

We came up with a simple solution. Instead of PP multipliers they are power amplifiers. Whether you require attunement or not it amplifies your power, or inversely cuts the required PP,s needed. This way solves a lot of problems: if the device is held or in the PC's aura they get the amplification benefit. The players PP's dont change. They cast as 4th lvl spell with a x2 device it costs them 2PP.

It may seem a difference without a distinction but it works for us.

We also got rid of adders and just have either PP storage devices or devices that can hold a specific stored spell (with invested PP's). Adders just led to a lot of issues with their ambiguity.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

For easiness sake, I play it the way intothatdarkness does, rounding it down when dividing rather than up.
That being said, considering how few PPs characters have in RM2, PP multipliers one can't easily keep at all times on oneself are a rarity.

[Aotrs Commander]

I have taken pains to somewhat migitate that (and why this has not come up before). I realised that basically we had ensured that ever spellcaster character or NPC we'd ever had had gotten Aura (+1PP/level) and Archtype (inherently x2 PP) background options, just in order to be reasonably functional.

With my latest round of revisions, to remove that need, I have modified the stat bonus table a bit, and have something more like the rounded progression in RoCoIII, I think it is. (Though not exactly, since I wanted to keep all the +5 break points in the same place for backward compatibility with my older game stats.) This has given the players a little bit more in the way of PPs as the fractions granted are now retained until multiplied out by level and/or PP multipliers.

In addition, I have implemented PP Development, which gains you 1 extra PP (not multiplied out by multipliers of level) per rank, and for good measure, granted one free rank for every two ranks of spell list acquisition you have.

(This means that older characters, who already have loads of PP, won't feel the loss of not having developed the skill, nor will the PP they get from the free ranks make them much worse.)

This gives Norath, at the heady height of level 6, a very respectable 52 PP¹ (or 37 if he doesn't have his PP multiplier). (Jihad (from SUC) is one of those lists, so even with his PP multiplier, he could get through that VERY fast!) Indeed, the only reason he has a PP multiplier at all is he that spent his entire  9000 elemonit starting fund allotment on his two handed sword! (This particular party is like a Lich version of Stargate SG-1, so his other equipment is provided by the Aotrs itself. Indeed, I've basically cribbed the gear system more-or-less directly out of Stargate SG-1 D20.)

Bit of a case of splitting the difference, but I think it seems to be working; the only other character I have gotten generated so far (a fighter) has 14 PP, which will give him enough to make use of the odd spell.



¹Helped along by the fact that the entire party has been granted ten ranks in four of his base lists automatically², meaning he has a fair bit more DP to spread around to other skills; he's actually only developed about four spell lists himself.

²The party are all members of the Aotrs organisation, which teaches several necromancy spell lists as part of basic training (which they have Sufficiently Advanced Necromancy for that they are suitable for more realms than just Ess/Chan hybrid, so they would be taught the one most appropriate to their own realm affinities). Regardless of how many years that takes, because Liches.

[Peter R]

We came up with a simple solution. Instead of PP multipliers they are power amplifiers. Whether you require attunement or not it amplifies your power, or inversely cuts the required PP,s needed. This way solves a lot of problems: if the device is held or in the PC's aura they get the amplification benefit. The players PP's dont change. They cast as 4th lvl spell with a x2 device it costs them 2PP.

Out of curiosity how much would it cost to cast a 5th level spell if you had a x2 multiplier?

[B Hanson]

2.5 we use fractions. its generally not a big issue and spell lvl = to pp's expended.

[Spectre771]

Does Norath have to spend every moment holding his sword to make use of the x2 PP? What happens if he puts it down or is disarmed? Is that it until he rest for 8 hours?

Here's how we handled it:

The caster first needs to make a successful Attunement roll (100+).  Once a day, until successful, having spent a least four waking hours "studying" or "becoming one with the item" then allowing the roll at the end of the day or start of the day.

If he does lose it, how does his PP change? Does he just lose the "bonus" PP, assuming that PP starts out being used from the extra PP gained by the multiplier? Does he lose half of his current PP? Does he get it back if he picks it up again?

- If lost, the PPs go back to the base PP he would normally have had without the item.  If any spells had been cast that day, then those points are subtracted from the base PP as if he had been casting from his normal pool of PP.  If that brought the caster to negative PP, he lost the ability to cast spells until two full rests.  One to get to zero PP, then another rest to get the normal PP.

- If another person has attuned to the item before the caster gets it back, he has to re-attune to it.  If he gets the item back before someone else attunes to it, then there is no need for the attunement roll.  Caster gets base PP x2, minus the number of PP cast already that day.  The time without the item had to be less than a day (or a full rest period without the item.)  The caster didn't have the item with his person, took a rest to recover PP, he loses the bonus.  One GM made casters re-attune if it had been a rest period, but they had a bonus to re-attune since they had already attuned prior and knew how to attune to this item.

Or does, having attuned to it, does it being in his possession (i.e., it counts as "worn" if in the sheath).
Or does he has to have it in his hand to use it?

He only had to have the item on his person to not lost the attunement, he had to have it in his hand to draw from the PPs there were granted by the item.  He could safely eat his breakfast or ride a horse with no issues, but if he wanted to draw on the bonus of the item, he needed to be wielding it.  Carrying a +5 Ring of Defense doesn't give you +5 DB if you keep it in your back pocket.  +10 Sword doesn't give you +10 OB if you're attacking with a Mace.  The item needed to be wielded (staff, dagger, sword) or worn (if it were a ring or amulet, hat, boots...) to get the bonus PP

I.e. is a PP multiplier basically filling up with a pool of PP when he rests equal to his regular PP (on an incremented version thereof for higher multipliers versions) that he just draws from during the course of the day²?)

I'm going to say "yes" because it sounds like how we handled it.  I'm not sure I fully understand the example you give.

²This actually might be the easiest way to resolve it; he could only use PP from this virtual pool when it's in his hand. If he drops it, no-one else can use it until they have a) attuned to it and b) they rested with it for eight hours, to fill it with a mirror increment of their own PP.

Yes, this is how we handled it.

[Tamans]

In these page the ruling go in an opposite direction, the multiplier works once a day, the PP stay. It's worth checking eventhough it is though for FRP.

[Tamans]

http://www.icewebring.com/errata/rolemaster-rulings/#Golden