Topic: How do you handle surprise?

[Druss_the_Legend]

ok lets say an enemy attacks a pc and it wasnt expected. Do you automatically award surprise or do you give them a chance to avoid being surprise?

[Mordrig]

If it was an ambush I would test vs their sense ambush and / or perception.  If it was during a conversation or in a bar there would be initative checks.  I am not one to give anyone a free pass.  Even if the players are launching a "surprise" attack, the other guy gets a chance to see the danger.  It might be too late to fully escape, but it might allow a reaction of some kind.


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[Spectre771]

I always try to give the two parties an Ambush skill roll and a Sense Ambush/Assassin roll.  The fact that Player is wants to hide and make a surprise attack doesn't mean Player B will automatically be surprised.

While Ambush is the ability to modify a crit roll, we also use it as a skill to attempt to make or setup a decent Ambush or surprise attack on someone.  In RMC-II there are stats associated with Ambush so we calculate that value for staging an ambush.  Number of ranks are only used for modifying a crit roll.

[Hurin]

If a player is stealthing, that player's skill roll is the number everyone needs to get on a perception check to see him/her. Mods are applied to the stealther's roll depending on circumstances (i.e. if it is broad daylight, as much as -100, or simply impossible if say they were both sitting in a well lit room).

[Pazuzu]

I usually throw something at the closest player and yell "Surprise Mother#@!%er!"

But this tends to be preceded by my rolling the opponent's stalk/hide versus the players' appropriate perception roll.

[Hurin]

I usually throw something at the closest player and yell "Surprise Mother#@!%er!"

LOL

[Peter R]

I usually throw something at the closest player and yell "Surprise Mother#@!%er!"

But this tends to be preceded by my rolling the opponent's stalk/hide versus the players' appropriate perception roll.

Excellent!

[Cory Magel]

I'll try to find the most appropriate skills to use on each side.
Attacker would probably be Ambush or Stalking.
Defender would probably be Observation, Sense Ambush, or Combat Awareness.
Let them both roll and see who comes out ahead.

[Druss_the_Legend]

I usually throw something at the closest player and yell "Surprise Mother#@!%er!"

But this tends to be preceded by my rolling the opponent's stalk/hide versus the players' appropriate perception roll.

haha

[Druss_the_Legend]

I'll try to find the most appropriate skills to use on each side.
Attacker would probably be Ambush or Stalking.
Defender would probably be Observation, Sense Ambush, or Combat Awareness.
Let them both roll and see who comes out ahead.

this cool.i like it.

[Majyk]

Yup, Perception vs Stalk/Hide on Hard MM table for a percentage chance to detect creeper/lurker monster-y foes and S.A.A vs Ambush on Medium MM Table for % chance for same.


In my campaigns I'd run for years and years, Gen. Perc. Was usually the highest developed skill vs the usual weapon skills!


Later I adopted the +20 Surprise bonus for being flatfooted in the very first round of combat(not having had a turn in that round, yet) a la 3.5...

[Peter R]

I'll try to find the most appropriate skills to use on each side.
Attacker would probably be Ambush or Stalking.
Defender would probably be Observation, Sense Ambush, or Combat Awareness.
Let them both roll and see who comes out ahead.

I would never allow my players to roll the opposing skill. I get all my players to give me some 1d100 rolls before the session starts and I use those for skill rolls like Sense Ambush and passive perception rolls (where the character is not actively seeking something). Oft times I can even make those checks during the pre session prep so unnecessary dice rolls do not disrupt the flow of the game. It also stops the meta gaming urge of "The GM says make a perception roll so all the characters check their weapons and string their bows".

If the players says he is actively worried about ambush then they could roll their skill but not in a passive situation.

[Cory Magel]

I would never allow my players to roll the opposing skill.

I think it's only fair. Let their own dice decide their fate.

I get all my players to give me some 1d100 rolls before the session starts and I use those for skill rolls like Sense Ambush and passive perception rolls (where the character is not actively seeking something). Oft times I can even make those checks during the pre session prep so unnecessary dice rolls do not disrupt the flow of the game.

I'll just have the entire party roll dice randomly for no reason once in a while.  Then they don't know when they're rolling for real.  I'd also have the entire party roll rather that just the one being surprised.  And no one in our group is concerned about the time it takes to roll a few dice.  Most see it as part of the fun of the game.

It also stops the meta gaming urge of "The GM says make a perception roll so all the characters check their weapons and string their bows". If the players says he is actively worried about ambush then they could roll their skill but not in a passive situation.

Fortunately the 'meta' stops with our groups members themselves for the most part.  I would laugh at anyone who did this regardless.  Still, my previous comment teaches people not to do that anyhow.

[jdale]

A certain amount of gratuitous rolling keeps the players on edge. Even if what they are actually rolling for is the weather or what mood that merchant happens to be in. We do tend to have a lot of "roll" "what am I rolling?" "just give me a number".

I also think it's fine to roll perception for the players.

[Druss_the_Legend]

A certain amount of gratuitous rolling keeps the players on edge. Even if what they are actually rolling for is the weather or what mood that merchant happens to be in. We do tend to have a lot of "roll" "what am I rolling?" "just give me a number".

I also think it's fine to roll perception for the players.

good point about the perception being rolled by GM. otherwise the players are like expecting to see something with a high roll. trick is to keep them guessing.

[Peter R]

I am not a fan of gratuitous rolling. I see the interruptons as  just that, an interruption to the game progressing.

[Cory Magel]

What's that?  You rolled a natural 100 on that (meaningless) observation check I just had you roll?  You notice the produce stall has ants and track the line of them back to a crack in the wall. Do you tell the merchant?

[Druss_the_Legend]

What's that?  You rolled a natural 100 on that (meaningless) observation check I just had you roll?  You notice the produce stall has ants and track the line of them back to a crack in the wall. Do you tell the merchant?

haha. cool.

[pedrokaco]

I usually throw something at the closest player and yell "Surprise Mother#@!%er!"

hahahaha
I will do it in my next game day!

[Spectre771]

What's that?  You rolled a natural 100 on that (meaningless) observation check I just had you roll?  You notice the produce stall has ants and track the line of them back to a crack in the wall. Do you tell the merchant?

I've done that too!  I've had players want to contribute to the point that it was interrupting game-flow, so I gave her the most detailed information she could have about the tree in the Elven forest.  Then when it came time for combat, she fumbled a couple of times and I told her she shouldn't have wasted all of her good rolls. 

It's the law of averages.   

I do have players give me a dice roll for no reason, it keeps them on their toes and invested n the scene.  Whenever possible, I let them roll their own fate.  It lets them see that I'm on the up and up and not just manipulating rolls behind the screen for my own ends and I like to let them be the victim of their own dice.