Author Topic: Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline johniemi

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Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused
« on: February 25, 2017, 10:01:54 AM »
Hello, this is my first post here. I am a Finnish roleplayer and I bought a set of used HARP books locally. I have played mostly d20 games (DD 1st - 3.5, Pathfinder) but also WoD, MERP, Dark Heresy, GURPS... actually the list goes on and on so I'll stop here :)

I think these are the original 1st version as last page number in the core HARP book is 192. So my first Q is that are there any major erratas that I should be aware of?

As I am reading the rules the first time I got confused is at page 68. So here's my question.
Page 68. "Skill vs. skill":
"... With a final total of 127, Nynvene's result is a 130 on the Resistance roll column. The GM makes an opposing Perception roll for the goblin and gets a result of 96, not enough ... to notice the rogue"

So what I don't understand is that why is Nynvene looking at the Resistance Roll column and not just compare the raw roll results? Couldn't Nynvene just state that "I rolled 127", and then the GM/goblin should roll 127 or better to succeed. So I don't understand why Nynvenes roll of 127 has to be consulted on the Resistance Roll table as 130 in the first place when to whole ordeal is just Skill vs. Skill. I am sure the rules have been thought out but I just don't get the logic why we should consult the RR table when we can already see the end result directly from the opposing rolls (Nynvene's 127 vs. GM/goblin's 96)? What am I missing here? :)

And does the goblin also look at the RR table after the roll of 96 just like when Nynvene rolled 127 and he gets a result of 130 on the RR table, so the GM/goblin's roll of 96 is actually 110 on the RR table? I assume this is the case but still want to double check. There is no mention of the GM/goblin going to the RR table, just a mention of a roll of 96.

Offline Karizma

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Re: Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2017, 10:53:06 AM »
Welcome!

You are correct: The first roll, the one that you look up on the RR column, defines the target number for success.  So in the example, the 127 is the first roll: It gets looked up to the 130, which the opponent must beat. The reason the rolls are looked up on the chart, instead of directly opposed might make more sense if you look at other results.

Let's say our initial skill roll was really bad, and was only 27. On the RR column, this becomes 70. In fact the lowest possible RR target is 65. In most cases, a 65 target would be easy for any character with any amount of skill, but is still high enough that there's still dramatic tension. Additionally, the higher rolls on the table end of with results LOWER than their roll (a roll of 221 becomes a RR target of 200). This is to help keep the opposing rolls within reasonable limits, so that on a really great roll, the opponent might have some hope of combating it.

I think the example the book uses doesn't really highlight this element of the RR column, but it's there to maintain balance between conflicts and keep the dramatic tension of the game.

For example, as a player, if I have a spell that requires a Resistance Roll, I would absolutely hate it if my roll result was the enemy's target number, since most likely than not I'm going to have a result under 100 early on while I'm still new with the spell. And an enemy with a decent Resistance skill would easily be able to overcome my attacks: It would discourage all those spells.

I thought it was weird at first too, but when you find yourself in combat, and have modifiers and are trying to cast a spell, there's nothing more frustrating than watching enemies resist nearly every attempt: There are more possible penalties for the spell caster roll than there are for the resisting roll.

Hope that helps!

Offline johniemi

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Re: Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 02:21:00 AM »
Thanks, I think I got it :)

But now I have an another question about damage caps and critical hits. I am rereading page 95 "Damage Cap" but I just don't understand this. Let's take an example:

I use a dagger (small critical).

I try to hit, roll d100 and add OB and other mods, reduce oppontent's DB and I get a total of 120. A good hit.

Now do I remove -10 because the weapon is small? And then I look at the damage cap and it's 90 for a small weapon so I just go to the slashing crit table and look up a critical that is 90?

I'm very confused about all this, I used to play MERP and I don't know if it was a house rule or what but there were no damage caps and there were separate tables for small criticals so it was fast and easy to roll and look at a table.

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 08:45:46 AM »
Thanks, I think I got it :)

But now I have an another question about damage caps and critical hits. I am rereading page 95 "Damage Cap" but I just don't understand this. Let's take an example:

I use a dagger (small critical).

I try to hit, roll d100 and add OB and other mods, reduce oppontent's DB and I get a total of 120. A good hit.

Now do I remove -10 because the weapon is small? And then I look at the damage cap and it's 90 for a small weapon so I just go to the slashing crit table and look up a critical that is 90?

"Damage Cap" would be better named "Critical Cap" as there is, at least to me, a difference between the critical and the damage. Yes, you remove 10 from your result because of weapon size, and the maximum critical allowed is a 90. There are a few ways around this: 1. If your first roll, before any modifiers, is 99-100 you ignore damage caps, and open-end as usual, 2. Ambush and Sniping skills: damage caps are ignored when you successfully use and apply these skills, and 3. magic weapons.
#LotorAllura2024

Offline johniemi

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Re: Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 10:07:32 AM »
OK, thanks a lot. Now I have the basics figured out except... going back to my first post and the scenario Nynvene vs. goblin/GM:

"And does the goblin also look at the RR table after the roll of 96 just like when Nynvene rolled 127 and he gets a result of 130 on the RR table, so the GM/goblin's roll of 96 is actually 110 on the RR table? I assume this is the case but still want to double check. There is no mention of the GM/goblin going to the RR table, just a mention of a roll of 96."

So basically my question is: when doing opposed checks (like Sneak vs. Perception) does everyone roll on the RR table? The sneaking rogue and the goblin both use the RR table after their rolls?

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 11:59:02 AM »
No, the goblin's 96 is the total, he doesn't need to look up an RR, he simply didn't get enough to notice.
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Offline Glenn_Gould

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Re: Skill vs. skill / resistance rolls - newbie confused
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2017, 02:42:56 PM »
[damage cap ...] There are a few ways around this: 1. If your first roll, before any modifiers, is 99-100 you ignore damage caps, and open-end as usual, 2. Ambush and Sniping skills: damage caps are ignored when you successfully use and apply these skills, and 3. magic weapons.
4. some combat actions, like a "Power Strike".