Author Topic: How much do you customize your game ?  (Read 11076 times)

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Offline Peter R

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #80 on: October 16, 2017, 04:39:04 PM »
I have a tendency to agree with RandalThor in the assessment of how complicated modern game systems tend to be.

My house rules tend to be about removing things from the game and making the things that remain do more work.

I have removed professions, levels, experience points and for the most part development points. I also use a slimmed down combat system.

In any game if I cannot fit an important NPC's character sheet on a post-it note then the character sheet is probably too complicated.

I have said it before but rolemaster feels like it is designed by engineers for engineers but is actually played by people from all walks of life. We may appreciate the overall structure but to be honest I don't need to see and marvel over individual nuts and bolts.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #81 on: October 16, 2017, 11:02:10 PM »
I am big on streamlining rules.

Complexity is only worth it if its manageable as a GM.

I now have the largest group of players ever which is why its important that combat is easy to run and pretty quick to resolve. many of my house rules have been for combat.

I use a hybrid combat system that is somewhere in between standard rolemaster combat rules and super fast combat resolution. we use macros on roll20 which speeds up dice calculations to instant speed :)

Offline Peter R

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2017, 01:43:38 AM »
My online play is all non-real time on rpol so speed is not as important. I use the condensed combat system from the Combat Companion. I can run entire combats from a single page with attack tables and criticals all on the same page.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2017, 08:55:45 AM »
I am big on streamlining rules.

Complexity is only worth it if its manageable as a GM.

I now have the largest group of players ever which is why its important that combat is easy to run and pretty quick to resolve. many of my house rules have been for combat.

I use a hybrid combat system that is somewhere in between standard rolemaster combat rules and super fast combat resolution. we use macros on roll20 which speeds up dice calculations to instant speed :)
My fear is that people will shy away from a system which on the one hand requires so much preparation time for the first play session and then is also a quite deadly system.
Anyone remember that character creation is one of the things RM critics picked on?  Even if the new system, as a whole, is less complex (which I am not remotely convinced of) if people don't get past character creation it's a moot point.

There is a section of the video below (skip forward to about 4 minutes) which very clearly sets out what appears to be a very common view about game complexity and simulation vs. narrative. All flavours of RM including RMU are very firmly in the simulation camp in my opinion and it takes quite an effort on the part of the GM to rebalance the game to shift the emphasis towards narrative centric play..

https://youtu.be/27vYSQrhxR4
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Offline jdale

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2017, 11:07:05 AM »
Yeah, but watch that video through minute 7 and tell me if that's how you want combat to work. I don't think so. If I wanted that kind of game, I could go play Everway or something that doesn't waste time with rules at all.

RM definitely had more complexity than it needed, and we trimmed off some of that, but RM's niche is at the simulationist end of the spectrum and it doesn't make sense to abandon that in favor of copying what other games have done. The question has to be which detail and complexity enhances play and which does not. Some of that detail inherently creates narrative, e.g. if your character has decided to go check the door while the fight is going on, actually having rules about movement and engagement determine whether you are at risk in a way that the rules don't if you throw away the map and just put your figure on the goblin card or the door card.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2017, 04:26:03 PM »
I have said it before but rolemaster feels like it is designed by engineers for engineers but is actually played by people from all walks of life. We may appreciate the overall structure but to be honest I don't need to see and marvel over individual nuts and bolts.
Now, if only these "RPG Engineers" would do with the rest of the game what they did with the Attack Tables; build all the crunch into the background where the Players/GMs don't have to fiddle with it (unless they want to). You know what I mean? The Attack Tables have all these factors built into them, but all we have to do is roll the dice and look at the (correct) table, simple.

Of course, I have no idea how to do that - but then again, I am not an engineer (of any sort).
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Offline Peter R

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2017, 04:41:55 PM »
Yeah, but watch that video through minute 7 and tell me if that's how you want combat to work. I don't think so. If I wanted that kind of game, I could go play Everway or something that doesn't waste time with rules at all.

RM definitely had more complexity than it needed, and we trimmed off some of that, but RM's niche is at the simulationist end of the spectrum and it doesn't make sense to abandon that in favor of copying what other games have done. The question has to be which detail and complexity enhances play and which does not. Some of that detail inherently creates narrative, e.g. if your character has decided to go check the door while the fight is going on, actually having rules about movement and engagement determine whether you are at risk in a way that the rules don't if you throw away the map and just put your figure on the goblin card or the door card.
Oh I totally agree, I wouldn't play rolemaster if I wanted to pick a few cards and to hell with the rest but what I found interesting was how far people are prepared to swing away from the simulationist way. I personally feel it is a dumbing down of the game but many people like it.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2017, 06:42:42 PM »
There is a section of the video below (skip forward to about 4 minutes) which very clearly sets out what appears to be a very common view about game complexity and simulation vs. narrative. All flavours of RM including RMU are very firmly in the simulation camp in my opinion and it takes quite an effort on the part of the GM to rebalance the game to shift the emphasis towards narrative centric play..
The disconnect I have with what that video is saying is that I do not use maps like that. For me, maps are guides not detailed like he shows. Not that people don't, of course, it is just that I don't, even though I consider myself a simulationist style player. I feel that the combat round has to have some level of abstraction, which makes detailed movement like that impossible to do - it just doesn't make sense to me to have such detail, but then claim other parts as abstract.

Plus, I really don't like to have a bunch of special stuff to play the game - it is enough needing the books, dice and the rest of the regular stuff. I will use props from time-to-time, but those are not needed, just to enhance the regular experience. (Stuff like images for people, places and things.)
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Offline GamemasterAlf

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2017, 11:18:54 PM »
My system is probably RM2 based but with so many changes house rules and grabs from other RM systems that I have set up my own rule books

Offline Peter R

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #89 on: October 19, 2017, 07:42:51 AM »
There is a section of the video below (skip forward to about 4 minutes) which very clearly sets out what appears to be a very common view about game complexity and simulation vs. narrative. All flavours of RM including RMU are very firmly in the simulation camp in my opinion and it takes quite an effort on the part of the GM to rebalance the game to shift the emphasis towards narrative centric play..
The disconnect I have with what that video is saying is that I do not use maps like that. For me, maps are guides not detailed like he shows. Not that people don't, of course, it is just that I don't, even though I consider myself a simulationist style player. I feel that the combat round has to have some level of abstraction, which makes detailed movement like that impossible to do - it just doesn't make sense to me to have such detail, but then claim other parts as abstract.

Plus, I really don't like to have a bunch of special stuff to play the game - it is enough needing the books, dice and the rest of the regular stuff. I will use props from time-to-time, but those are not needed, just to enhance the regular experience. (Stuff like images for people, places and things.)

I think I am very much like you. I don't use minis or battle maps but then I also really try and avoid using rules for strategic movement. I may ask for a MM roll if the situation calls for it but I don't think I have ever measured a distance, foe example, to see exactly what amount of someones activity was used. The excitement of the encounter trumps all and for me things like movement rates I probably have 3 speeds, sneaking around, walking and running. Everything else is too much hassle.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #90 on: October 19, 2017, 07:51:19 AM »


I think I am very much like you. I don't use minis or battle maps but then I also really try and avoid using rules for strategic movement. I may ask for a MM roll if the situation calls for it but I don't think I have ever measured a distance, foe example, to see exactly what amount of someones activity was used. The excitement of the encounter trumps all and for me things like movement rates I probably have 3 speeds, sneaking around, walking and running. Everything else is too much hassle.

Same here.  I very rarely use maps.  I like it to be theatre of the mind as much as possible.  I may give a very rough "5-year-old's" rough drawing with circles and squares just to clarify where people are standing in relationship to one another or buildings, but I never put distances or draw to scale.  People are "... about 8'-10' from the wall..., ...the Orc is about 6' to your left and the goblin is about 5' to your right..."  I don't use minis at all.

If a group is exploring a dungeon, I'll have the "map keeper" roll his Cartography skill (maybe Direction Sense if he has it), and I'll draw out the map for him based on his rolls.  If he rolls poorly, his map is way off.  If he rolls well, then the map is more accurate.  The return trips to the dungeon or if he gives the map to another group is a lot of fun.  Hey... want a more accurate map???  Get better at map making!
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Offline Peter R

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #91 on: October 19, 2017, 08:30:23 AM »
The sorcerer player insists on making accurate maps, carries copper plates for etching them and has the skills. The party call him trapfinder as he has set off just about everything going while pacing out the dimensions of a room.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2017, 09:10:18 AM »
The sorcerer player insists on making accurate maps, carries copper plates for etching them and has the skills. The party call him trapfinder as he has set off just about everything going while pacing out the dimensions of a room.

Awesome!!  Reminds me of my sister's thief character.  If she could disarm the trap, she would just set it off.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2017, 12:18:59 PM »


I think I am very much like you. I don't use minis or battle maps but then I also really try and avoid using rules for strategic movement. I may ask for a MM roll if the situation calls for it but I don't think I have ever measured a distance, foe example, to see exactly what amount of someones activity was used. The excitement of the encounter trumps all and for me things like movement rates I probably have 3 speeds, sneaking around, walking and running. Everything else is too much hassle.

Same here.  I very rarely use maps.  I like it to be theatre of the mind as much as possible.  I may give a very rough "5-year-old's" rough drawing with circles and squares just to clarify where people are standing in relationship to one another or buildings, but I never put distances or draw to scale.  People are "... about 8'-10' from the wall..., ...the Orc is about 6' to your left and the goblin is about 5' to your right..."  I don't use minis at all.

If a group is exploring a dungeon, I'll have the "map keeper" roll his Cartography skill (maybe Direction Sense if he has it), and I'll draw out the map for him based on his rolls.  If he rolls poorly, his map is way off.  If he rolls well, then the map is more accurate.  The return trips to the dungeon or if he gives the map to another group is a lot of fun.  Hey... want a more accurate map???  Get better at map making!

cool! love it

Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #94 on: October 19, 2017, 12:22:42 PM »
Playing on roll20 lends itself to using more visuals. maps but also pictures of npcs and some background music and sound effects as well. This is all gravy and just extra stuff you can use to your own tastes really. ive been using roll20 for 3yrs now and when i started the maps were all i used.

Last adventure we played the party faced this huge wolf creature and i had endless fun using a howling wolf sound effect when it attacked and also when it died.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #95 on: October 19, 2017, 12:41:04 PM »
Playing on roll20 lends itself to using more visuals. maps but also pictures of npcs and some background music and sound effects as well. This is all gravy and just extra stuff you can use to your own tastes really. ive been using roll20 for 3yrs now and when i started the maps were all i used.

Last adventure we played the party faced this huge wolf creature and i had endless fun using a howling wolf sound effect when it attacked and also when it died.

That's really cool.  I've been looking into something online now.  If this weekend campaign takes off, maybe I can get it to continue during the year with something online.  We'll have a weekend session once or twice a year.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2017, 09:24:31 PM »
Playing on roll20 lends itself to using more visuals. maps but also pictures of npcs and some background music and sound effects as well. This is all gravy and just extra stuff you can use to your own tastes really. ive been using roll20 for 3yrs now and when i started the maps were all i used.

Last adventure we played the party faced this huge wolf creature and i had endless fun using a howling wolf sound effect when it attacked and also when it died.

That's really cool.  I've been looking into something online now.  If this weekend campaign takes off, maybe I can get it to continue during the year with something online.  We'll have a weekend session once or twice a year.

i highly recommend roll20 if u havent used it yet. the basics are pretty easy to master (i not a big IT guy at all) and then when u get the hang of it you can add extra stuff like macro's for dice rolling (these are pre programmed so you can make an attack and add OB automatically for example). Because i have moved away from weapons tables i can also use macro programmed dice for weapon damage (i use super fast combat system from RMCIII) and its pretty fast.

you have to invest 50-100hrs in roll20 before you can start to use it at its potential but even the basics is good when u start.

my rolemaster campaign is played annually for 5-6 weeks so there is a long break between 'seasons'. for this reason i keep extensive online notes on roll20 with info about plot, pcs, npcs etc. its a bit of notekeeping but no more than u would do with standrad rpg imo.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2017, 09:47:45 PM »
...but RM's niche is at the simulationist end of the spectrum and it doesn't make sense to abandon that in favor of copying what other games have done.

Kinda goes back to who is this aimed at.  I think the question that needs to be asked there is; Does today's potential audience want that?  Old RM users, pretty obvious they do.  It seems more and more obvious RMU is not to be aimed at new users.  I don't think it'll be able to back track to them either.  So maybe HARP, or something else, is seen as filling that.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #98 on: October 19, 2017, 09:49:13 PM »
I think I am very much like you. I don't use minis or battle maps but then I also really try and avoid using rules for strategic movement. I may ask for a MM roll if the situation calls for it but I don't think I have ever measured a distance, foe example, to see exactly what amount of someones activity was used. The excitement of the encounter trumps all and for me things like movement rates I probably have 3 speeds, sneaking around, walking and running. Everything else is too much hassle.
Sounds like some of you would like the new Star Wars system.  Generic version is coming out very soon too.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: How much do you customize your game ?
« Reply #99 on: October 20, 2017, 02:05:22 AM »
I think I am very much like you. I don't use minis or battle maps but then I also really try and avoid using rules for strategic movement. I may ask for a MM roll if the situation calls for it but I don't think I have ever measured a distance, foe example, to see exactly what amount of someones activity was used. The excitement of the encounter trumps all and for me things like movement rates I probably have 3 speeds, sneaking around, walking and running. Everything else is too much hassle.
Sounds like some of you would like the new Star Wars system.  Generic version is coming out very soon too.

The only thing that I am completely addicted to are rolemaster criticals. Any system that doesn't off them is not for me.
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