Author Topic: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?  (Read 3472 times)

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Offline ReGM

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Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« on: June 11, 2015, 10:19:17 AM »
I've been playing (and browsing, and buying) merp and rolemaster for over 20 years and I've never heard of this. It is on ebay right now. Did ICE really publish this? And/or does anyone know anything about it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ICE-Rolemaster-Computer-Companion-I-SC-VG-/131527378567?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

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Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2015, 01:37:39 PM »
I have not seen it before or have seen anyone ask about it before. But I will send your post up the line to see what others have to say. The other things is that it is the book only and no software.
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Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 02:03:39 PM »
Appears to be the same as this: http://www.jorden.nu/jonas/ilivroom.html
and http://www.jorden.nu/jonas/rms.html
It was for the Amiga. The Ebay listing says 1982, which would be too early as the Amiga 1000 was released in 1985.
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Offline John @ ICE

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 03:07:13 PM »
Never heard of it and didnt have it in my IP master list.

Nicholas said: "Never heard of it before. But all they are doing is selling a second-hand manual for a piece of software written in 1980s/early 90s and the software is not even included! A historical curiousity at best. "
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Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 03:23:13 PM »
I might send them an email asking who created the software and that since it is not on Johns master IP list that also raises some red flags (to me at least). I am not saying that it is not legit but it might also be someone trying to make quick $.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline jdale

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 05:52:45 PM »
The page I linked was first archived by the Wayback Machine on March 8, 2001. Fourteen years ago. It doesn't appear to have ever been updated after it was first put up. There's a note that says "I have permission from I.C.E. to distribute this utility as shareware due to the limited market (i.e. Amiga). This permission can be withdrawn without further notice, if they think that the utility dilutes their market." On http://www.jorden.nu/jonas/ikitchen.html he says he started it in 1994.

It seems more likely that it was authorized and then people just forgot about it because, well, Amiga...
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Offline ReGM

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 03:32:02 PM »
How fun! When I first saw it I thought it was a bookstore selling a "companion" that was nothing more than an aid someone wrote for their own personal game.

I'm gonna email that Jonas guy. If that email address is still in use, maybe we'll learn more.

Thanks for your responses. I'll keep you informed.

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Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015, 05:58:38 PM »
I know that patent law can be crazy and it might be the case that you are not supposed to sell the book without the software and vice versa. I do not think ICE would have a problem with it but you should contact a higher up at the company to see if there will be one if you buy it.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline jdale

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2015, 07:50:26 PM »
I'm not a lawyer, but I would think the first sale doctrine protects the resale, even partial resale, of a lawfully purchased product. From a moral standpoint, it's hard to imagine any harm to purchasing something that has no functional value at this point in time, only its value as a collectable.
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Offline Merkir

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2015, 08:46:47 PM »
Wow, that website took me back 20 years. Those psychedelic backgrounds we used to see on Netscape 1. I love it!  :)

Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 12:02:09 AM »
  The problem might be in the material that is contained in the book and if it copies ICE material. Since it seems to be almost a one of a kind it might not be a problem but if it is essentially a cut down version of RM I + other rule sets it could be problematic from the point of view that it was licensed by the old ICE to be sold as a book+software and if you are missing one of the pieces then it cannot be resold on the open market.
 I personally would like to see what is inside it before I put my $ down and/or had ICE step in and do something if the book had game material in it.


 Like I said I have seen and head about some crazy software + book (instruction manual's) terms of agreement in my time.
MDC 
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 04:07:28 AM »
BTW, it should be very easy to check if this is the case as it generally states that the book must include the software somewhere in the first couple of pages or in the EULA.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2015, 11:54:03 AM »
  Something that I am curious about is if the book is one published by the creator of the software and distributed by them or if it is a printout of the programs digital instructions. If it is the later IMHO the product has considerable less value and in fact may be in violation of the EULA as "you" are not supposed to make a profit off of printed material by other companies.
  But as we all know that happens sometimes. ;D

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline RickInVA

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2015, 12:56:16 PM »
  Something that I am curious about is if the book is one published by the creator of the software and distributed by them or if it is a printout of the programs digital instructions. If it is the later IMHO the product has considerable less value and in fact may be in violation of the EULA as "you" are not supposed to make a profit off of printed material by other companies.
  But as we all know that happens sometimes. ;D

MDC

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure that if I purchase a first edition of a book, and later it becomes valuable, that there is no problem with "me" making a profit on the sale of that printed material.

Yes, Autodesk puts a wrinkle in that with regards to software (in the 9th Circuit at least), but Kirtsaeng supports the First Sale Doctrine in regards to printed and other copyrighted material, and has implications against Autodesk.  In the EU software licenses can be freely resold under the First Sale Doctrine based on a 2012 ruling by the European Court of Justice.

Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2015, 01:27:02 PM »
Yes but the book is for the software it is not just any old book, if it was just a book IMHO there would "generally" not be a problem. The generally comes about because of specific laws that ban the selling of some material in specific formats.
I am going to see Jurassic Park today with my brother-in-law and kids and he is a patent lawyer so I will ask him. But IIRC this question has come up before in the case of things that are to be sold together.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2015, 03:25:34 AM »
I talked to my brother-in-law and he had some good info about legality. Note this was just off the top of his head and since Jurassic World started shortly after I asked him we did not talk about it that much.
1) It can depend on the EULA for the software distribution and the licence issued by ICE.
2) It can depend on where the "book" came from, ie printed by publisher or printed by user.
3) In some cases it can be hard to enforce the "bundle" or products licence agreement.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline jdale

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Re: Rolemaster Computer Companion I?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2015, 01:23:16 PM »
I think the odds of a 1992 piece of software written by an amateur programmer having come with a EULA that is enforceable in court would be pretty slim.
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