Author Topic: Willpower  (Read 1773 times)

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Offline Mourglin

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Willpower
« on: December 15, 2017, 02:23:10 PM »
Just wondering how any of you deal with the concept of WILL (will power) as it relates to magic items with WILL etc. Imagine trying to quantify resisting the effects of the One Ring as an example? Should it be based on pure level? I don't believe so, and I also think race has some play in it... perhaps based on a combination of stat/resistance bonuses?

I've been looking around for a good foundation to create a WILL stat of some sort. Any best practices or approaches for this?

Thanks

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 02:56:58 PM »
Just wondering how any of you deal with the concept of WILL (will power) as it relates to magic items with WILL etc. Imagine trying to quantify resisting the effects of the One Ring as an example? Should it be based on pure level? I don't believe so, and I also think race has some play in it... perhaps based on a combination of stat/resistance bonuses?

I've been looking around for a good foundation to create a WILL stat of some sort. Any best practices or approaches for this?

Thanks

There are items in RMC-I with Willpower and I believe it also describes how to resist the Will of the item.  They are artefact items so are naturally powerful.  I'll see what I can dig up for specifics.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 06:57:49 PM »
RoCo I. defines Will as being the sum of your PR, EM, IT, SD and RE stat bonuses, and any racial Resistance Roll modifications for Essence, Channeling, and Mentalism from the race abilities table (so race plays a role) and gives you detailed rules to handle this matter.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline jdale

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 12:08:24 AM »
RMFRP Treasure Law likewise gives a character's Will bonus as Re+SD+Em+In+Pr. Most races get -15, except dwarves (+80) and halflings (+90). The actual roll is a RR so that gets level involved as well. Not sure where the racial modifiers are coming from, using the sum of racial RR modifiers for the realms makes sense though.

In RMU Treasure Law, same stats, but it's a contest of d100OE+Will, so level is not involved. I don't think there is a racial modifier either. I would add any bonus from the Iron Will talent, although it's not stated.
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Offline Voriig Kye

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 08:21:48 AM »
Most races get -15, except dwarves (+80) and halflings (+90).
That is the sum of magic RR for each race. Or at least every time I did the math that's what it got me.
This is explicitly stated in RMCI on "5.1 Items with Intelligence and Will".

The actual roll is a RR so that gets level involved as well
Are you sure level should be considered? I always thought the Will mechanic was left unchanged in RMFRP with respect to RM2, and the table was a specific one considering the difference in rolls, not an RR at all.

In RMU Treasure Law, same stats, but it's a contest of d100OE+Will, so level is not involved. I don't think there is a racial modifier either. I would add any bonus from the Iron Will talent, although it's not stated.
I always liked the addition of racial magic resistances to the Will of a character, which I think is meant to represent the Halflings resistance to rings. We will surely add it as a house rule to RMU if it's not included in the final version.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 10:18:37 AM »
+1 in favour of adding the racial modifiers to RMU.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 01:02:24 PM »
Most races get -15, except dwarves (+80) and halflings (+90).
That is the sum of magic RR for each race. Or at least every time I did the math that's what it got me.
This is explicitly stated in RMCI on "5.1 Items with Intelligence and Will".

It's not explained in RMFRP Treasure Law (there's just a table of races each with a modifier) but it appears to be the same. I overlooked that Common Men don't have a listed modifier at all, which corresponds with their racial RR modifiers of +0/+0/+0. It must be coincidence that the other races (aside from dwarves and halflings) all happen to have -15 as their total.

Quote
The actual roll is a RR so that gets level involved as well
Are you sure level should be considered? I always thought the Will mechanic was left unchanged in RMFRP with respect to RM2, and the table was a specific one considering the difference in rolls, not an RR at all.

It seems sensible to me that it's easier to control a green infantryman than a high level knight. RMFRP characters reach their stat potentials around level 5-6 so after that point if it was all stats and racial modifiers, there would be no improvement.

It also seems sensible that a powerful item is harder to master, but I think you could handle that just by giving the item better stats.

Quote
In RMU Treasure Law, same stats, but it's a contest of d100OE+Will, so level is not involved. I don't think there is a racial modifier either. I would add any bonus from the Iron Will talent, although it's not stated.
I always liked the addition of racial magic resistances to the Will of a character, which I think is meant to represent the Halflings resistance to rings. We will surely add it as a house rule to RMU if it's not included in the final version.

A particular halfling was resistant to a particular ring, but I took that more as his lack of avarice; there was nothing it could really tempt him with, except safety, and even that was an obvious illusion. That doesn't really apply to your typical halfling in an RPG, where they tend to be played as thieves since that's what they are best at.

That aside, elves have magic RR penalties but the intent is more that they are close to magic, not that they are weak-willed (that might be better represented by their SD penalty). If the idea is that the willpower contest is inherently magical, which is not unreasonable, should it be the sum of three realms, or just the realm of the item?

In any case, if you want this changed in RMU, please post it in the Treasure Law forum, since I'm not working on that book.
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Offline Hurin

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2017, 04:29:38 PM »
I think your interpretation of the reason for the Hobbit's resistance is at least debatable. Sam is at one point tempted to become the greatest gardener in Middle Earth. And it sure seems like the folks who made MERP and the old Middle Earth modules gave Hobbits (and Dwarves) just good resistances against Essence magic in general. And given RMU's size rules, i think small creatures like Halflings could use every little boost one can give them.

It is a fair point about the resistance vs. a specific realm though. I think that creatures should only get the resistance vs. the realm if they have a bonus in that realm.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

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Offline Hurin

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 10:33:18 AM »
For reference, here's when Sam is tempted:

"As he stood there, even though the Ring was not on him but hanging by its chain about his neck, he felt himself enlarged, as if he were robed in a huge distorted shadow of himself, and vast and ominous threat halted upon the walls of Mordor..."

"Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur... He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be. "

...'And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit'.

'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Mourglin

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2017, 12:20:16 PM »
Thanks for the replies, I'll dig around my RC1, I don't think I have Treasure Law though. I remember now that it was all the mental stats + magic RR's added up. I do like adding 1 per level actually as that implies power as well. Seems the Tolkien approach to giving Hobbits +90 and Dwarves +80 would make them nearly impervious to items with Will.

I'm not running Middle Earth, it's a home baked world, with a Tolkien feel as far as elves go, but I'm not sure the huge bonuses for Hobbits/Dwarves apply. Though it does make up for some of those racial shortcomings. Then again how often does WILL actually get used? Only with Items having WILL?

Would you try to incorporate it with doing tasks, or going on despite heavy resistance, for example: traveling in very inclement weather or cutting your own arm off to save yourself? Is that WILL or a Self Discipline roll instead?

One other thing I sort of applied as a contest of WILL was Gandalf vs the Balrog when the Balrog was first approaching... when Gandalf closed his eyes and saw the power approaching... or better yet, Gandalf sparring with Saruman over control of Theoden.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 05:47:55 AM »
Many rules use Will to solve "mental combat". For instance, combats vs. the magical guardian of Scrying guardian spells from the "Scrying Guard" list use will contests. Combats vs. spirits do as well. Based on this, one may want to use will contests for possession rather than a mere RR roll.
"Will Breaker" offers interesting options (only applicable to spells from the list itself but that easily be widened to all M spells) but a GM would probably have to extend will contest rules so that a character may lose will because of such a contest, and gain it back with time.

In my world, some creatures may initiate will contests.
* One "normal" round equals to five "phases" of will contest,
* At each phase, the losing character loses a number of will points equal to the difference between the will rolls,
   Ex.: PC (will 156) rolls a 85 for a total of 241,
          NPC (will 184) rolls a 48 for a total of 232.
    --> NPC loses 9 will points and has his will drop to 175.
* If there are several will contests at the same time, all characters only roll once and lose points based on difference with each of his opponents,
* Will contests are tiring: a character loses 3 exhaustion points per round of contest will, and takes a 'A' stress critical on rounds 4-6, 'B' on rounds 7-9, 'C' on rounds 10-12, 'D' on rounds 13-15 and 'E' on each subsequent round,
* A character gains back 10 will points per round he's not having a will contest, except if it had reached 0 (or below), in which case he gains 10 will points per hour,
* As long as his will is below 0, a character's level is divided by two where making RRs vs. M spells.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Majyk

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 01:32:14 PM »
I rule Will contests quite alike to Olf but recovery is by days/weeks vs hours.

This allows losses not wanting to be contested right away by the PCs, besides plot points, and allows for the item or (N)PC to have a bit of leash to further their agenda after winning a Contest betwixt Wills.

Good luck in making those PCs submit themselves to your world's Artifacts!
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Willpower
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 11:53:37 PM »
A Will bonus will make Halflings better at wielding and using powerful intelligent items. For the lure of the One Ring, this is better represented in RMU by the Coveted Item effect (18th level on the Mood Impressions list), which uses the RR mechanics (for Mentalism, so Halflings get a +20 as of the beta 2 revision). Corruption by an item like the Ruling Ring may be modeled using Purification (level 40 on the Sacred Purpose list).
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