Topic: The making of Mithril magic items from mithril coins

[yammahoper]

Mithril is consistently referred to as a metal and not an alloy.

Many metals are refered to as metals because they are metal.  However, the vast majority of metals we all deal with are actually alloys...metal alloys (i.e. still metal).  Think elements and compunds,  Most metals in their pure state are less than useful, or at least far less useful than when made/used in an alloy. 

Your game mechanics look fine to me, but they do ignore real life.  That is no biggie, but you are misrepresenting the reality of working metal.  Regardless, if you want your mithrel weapons a dime a dozen and made only of 99.9% pure mithrel, there can be no harm in that.  I do think this approach misses out on many opportunities for adventure and intruigue, as many alloys historically were closely guarded secrets of smiths, kings and govts.  There would be some mithrel weapons, developed for the superior qualities no steel provides (hurts weres, harms creatures requiring magic to harm, could hold a cleaving enchantment nicely, etc).  But like the afore mentioned meteoric iron, most would be used for NON weapon production (which HISTORY has proven via the meteoric relics found: some weapons, most not).  As the ONLY iron alloy occuring naturally on the planet, it was far to valuable to use otherwise. 

In closing, stating that we diverge from the rules by imagining mithrel is an alloy is an insulting statement.  You know just how we should play do you? 

[jdale]

I concede the point about Middle Earth.

Treasure Companion seems pretty clear to me that it is not treated as an alloy, e.g. for purposes of needing spells for creating alloys. It doesn't say anything about purity, but it doesn't concern itself with the purity of iron either, which we can assume is not 99.9% but is also not treated as an alloy for game purposes.

Again I'm not saying anything about how things should be. You can do many interesting things in your own game by modifying the rules, totally fine. That they are interesting does not change what the rules say.

[rdanhenry]

TC does make it quite clear that plain +0 iron is *not* pure iron (which it includes as 'soft iron'). TC classifies +0 ("hard iron") iron as form of steel.

I would point out that the TC treatment of mithril, with its insanely valuable mithril coins, is actually in contradiction of the core rules. It doesn't just add to the core rules in this respect; it is outright revisionist. Under the core rules, mithril obvious can be made into coin without expensive enchantment.

[Dreven1]

I play in a high magic, high reward, high fantasy type game.  I love Players getting to 20th level and beyond, I love magic (Treasure Companion and most companions are bursting with it!) and I think that it is fantastic to see a players face when they find treasure!

Having that said.  I just need some help with Treasure Companion. Can anyone please help me with the costs of these items?

Sword:
1) 4'long
2) Mithril
3) Orc Slaying
4) x2 powerpoint multipler for Paladins (or Channeling whichever is cheaper)

Staff:
1) Casts Lightning Bolt per charge (or does it cost as many charges as the spells level?)
2) Acts as a +3 spell adder (which adds spells to the caster no matter what level for their first 3 spells of the day correct?)
3) Made of Dir Wood

Suite of Drake Leather
1) +10 to DB
2) Returns via long door
3) +10 to climbing

I just need some help with tabulating the costs as the TC nor the Alchemy Companion does a really good job of itemizing the lists for a flow from start to finish of making an item.

[markc]

BTW, I have seen long door on weapons but not on armor.
MDC

[yammahoper]

Work Mithrel is level 15, x2pp is a general III, also level 15 an Slay Orcs requires a Weapon IV, level 25.

Base Cost for an item is (total levels of all spells required to make item) x (time in weeks needed to create item) = gp cost.

Selling price can be additionally multiplied by level of alchemist, though I ignore this rule.

Section 9.0 of TC covers cost.  The big change for me is I altered weeks to days in contruction time.  I also only require one Make or Work spell.

So, a mithrel sword takes 15 days to make (15 weeks by RAW).  Adding Orc Slaying requires another 25 days, and adding the x2pp requires 30 additional days (each additional enchantment increases time to construct by x2.  Adding another level 15 enchantment would require an additional 45 days...again, weeks by RAW).

So 70 days at 8hrs of work a day and 55pp's per day.  No small understaking.  The cost would be total level of spells (55) multiplies by time to make (70) or 3850gp.  By RAW, since this requires a Guild master level Alchemist to produce, the selling price is 8x base cost, or 30800gp.  At 1/4 ounce coins, thats 481.25 POUNDS of gold.  A rediculous ammount to be sure.  Without the multiplaction in selling cost, it is still a solid 60 lbs of gold, enough gold in RM to live very comfortably on for 100 years.  I assume cost to construct is 60% of base cost, the rest is profit.  If using the GM Law sale/resale tables, this balances very nicely.

[markc]

Yammahopper,
 I like the idea of using the tables in GM law for selling items. +1 idea.
MDC

[Ecthelion]

Anyone have an opinion on how much mithril is needed to weave into a set of Leather to make it +20 magical to DB?

Strictly sticking to the item construction rules in Treasure Companion (TC) this is IMO not possible. For a +20 magic leather armor an Alchemist would need +15 non-magical leather base material, like fell beast hide, and the use the corresponding spell allowing him to enhance this to +20 magical leather. Mithril would not help here, it would only help in the creation of metal weapons/armor.

I have a group with 20 mithril coins and they want to use them to make stuff "magical" by finding an alchemist with the "work mithril" spell to interweave the coins into thread and sew them into leather to provide a +20 DB.

Work Mithril is indeed use for creating mithril items, but not a leather armor.

According to the Alchemist Companion Mithril provides a bonus of +20.  The question is ... now MUCH mithril is that?    Thanks all!

For weapons and armor you can gauge the necessary amount by using the weight of the weapon or armor. Usually you would end up using a lot of coins that were necessary...

The PCs should IMO better go to a shop and invest their mithril coins into buying non-magical +15 leather armor and other items. Non-magical items are much cheaper than magical ones, especially those made of mithril, and they will probably end up with +15 leather armor for each member of the group instead of perhaps equipping one member with a +20 mithril item by over-stretching the rules.

Just my 2 cents

[Dreven1]

The PCs should IMO better go to a shop and invest their mithril coins into buying non-magical +15 leather armor and other items. Non-magical items are much cheaper than magical ones, especially those made of mithril, and they will probably end up with +15 leather armor for each member of the group instead of perhaps equipping one member with a +20 mithril item by over-stretching the rules.

Just my 2 cents

Thanks for the 2 cents! I play my games where the Characters start off fairly poor and by 7th or 10th level they have mithril coins, magic weapons (which they don't have to upkeep), and mounts like Wyverns, bears and Lesser (dumb)Drakes. I even let artifacts enter the game if they get to level 15th or 20th. 

Rolemaster, IMHO, is a FANTASTIC GAME but its simply too deadly to hold back on throwing magic at Players.  I often allow 50th level runes/scrolls, higher level healing NPCs that heal simply for the "greater good" and +20 Magic items. 

I want the players to feel the power of the game.  Heck, there are more divers magic items in RM than I have seen in ANY other game system I have ever played.    When a PC can get hit with 3OE rolls in a game session and die, I don't mind throwing them a +25 Shield which will cast fly I at will or allow "spider walking" boots (constant) in the same group. 

I also am a big fan of making AT3, AT4 or AT9 which protects as 13 or 16 or even 20!  Been playing for 25 years and it is highly likely that no Character will live beyond 7th or 8th, BUT if they do, I like them to be loaded up with cool and nifty gadgets! 
Drev

[Ecthelion]

We play with a little less magic and also stick relatively close to the rules. And since - according to the rules (Treasure Companion for magic items in our RMSS/RMFRP case) - magic items are so much more expensive than non-magic items, our characters first get all their gear to, lets say, +15 or +20 non-magic gear and perhaps an occasional +5 magic weapon to battle monsters that cannot be harmed by mundane weapons, before investing into the expensive magic items with +20 bonuses or higher. IIRC magical +15 or higher armor according to TC costs thousands of gold pieces. And since we don't use rules for damage to armor or weapons there exists little additional benefit of using magical armor. And for a few thousand gp the group could buy non-magical +15 or +20 armor for the whole group.

[Dreven1]

Ah, gotcha Ecthelion.  Yea if you play with the "degrade" or "upkeep" rules for normal armor and weapons it is a maintenance NIGHTMARE.  Magic stops all that 
So, as a GM I just upped what the players got from modules, dunegeons and adventures (little secret, once the players start playing in 6th-10th modules I actually use the DND gold straight from the books! hehe it actually works out well and equates more to the TC values!)