Author Topic: RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation  (Read 1818 times)

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Offline Eldainen

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RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation
« on: July 10, 2013, 10:25:04 AM »
Hi all!

I have a quick question about the sorcerer spell Subjugation that haunted our last RP session. First the spell:

11. Subjugation — Part of the target’s “soul” is taken and placed in an organic object on the caster’s person. The body of the target will act as the caster directs whenever he concentrates. The spell is canceled when: the caster cancels it or the object is destroyed or the target is more than 100' from object or the object leaves caster’s person. If the caster is not concentrating the target is free to do anything he wants (though he is at - 30 to all actions). While being commanded, the target is aware of all the actions he is performing (but he is helpless to stop them).

The problem is the following: the player who did cast the spell pretended to moove the body of his victim in order to kill himself (cutting his own throat with his dagger). I, aka the Master, objected stating that an eleventh level spell is not meant to give an instant kill for the sole reason of a failed RR, and I ruled that the order couldn't be issued because it's completely alien to the target (as per other mind control spells). Alternatevely an order of Killing himself could be issued but the target would benefit of another RR with a +50 modification because the order is completely alien to the victim. Obviously the player was pissed.

The reason behind my statement is that the caster in order to moove the body of the victim still has to control the portion of the soul of the victim and therefore the spell is similar to Suggestion or mind control or other mind control spells, and suffers the same limitations.

There is in fact another spells that puts the caster directly in control of the body of the victim and it's transferral (same spell list). In this case you can moove the body to kill himself, but as per spell description the caster would die too. That's why I don't think that the rules intend to really allow an instant kill for a failed RR at level 11...

What do you think?

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 11:39:56 AM »
Sounds reasonable to me. It shouldn't be that hard for a creative player to kill such a victim less directly anyway.
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Offline markc

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Re: RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 01:45:05 PM »
 I agree with your ruling and you will find in RM there are some spells that can be abused by players and GM's alike.  It is always (at least for me) tough to tell a player hay your interpretation of that rule is going to really unbalance the game and I do not think it was written to be played the way, way back in the 80's when most of the rules were written.
 Now with the internet a GM can make a quick jaunt to the ICE Forums, the RM Collected Rulings or to a fellow RM player/GM to get quick advice on a rule.


Anyway sorry for the long opine IMHO you decided on the right course of action.
 
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Offline yammahoper

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Re: RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 11:22:49 PM »
A level 2 shockbolt can kill with no rr at all.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline Ynglaur

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Re: RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 12:39:31 AM »
"Here, eat this apple."
Done.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 12:23:05 AM »
Another situation where I'd, very pointedly, ask the players around the table if they'd like me (the GM) to be able to do that to any of them in the future.  This heads off a LOT of abuse issues.
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Offline VladD

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Re: RMFRP Sorcerer's spell Subjugation
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2013, 03:37:35 AM »
Although it is not a good management option, I do tend to regulate some stuff that way. I've used that to regulate the use of (old 200%) haste spells in the past. As a GM there are plenty of options for handing out one us speed options to enemies! Not to mention the dispel option...
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