Topic: Spontaneous and Positive Undead

[Zhaleskra]

As a former D&D fan, a few ideas behind undead that I like are:

1. Undead spontaneously animating from their own graves to defend their tombs from some supernatural threat.
2. Undead who are intentionally animated with positive energy, such as the Raaig tomb guardians of Dark Sun in AD&D 2E.

So I guess I'm looking for a way to include good undead.

[Bruce]

I only played in the dark sun for a brief period so I am not sure what you mean by positive energy? If you mean as in a life force then they wouldn't be undead. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. Unless your talking about a form of wraith, who sit in between the world of the dead and living.
I don't think spontaneous is the best word for how the undead appear. As a GM I believe it is not always because of someone raising them or something they did themselves. Sometimes the gods have a hand in it. Also if you are using Cyradon or Shadow World then remember the ley lines and nexus points. Those areas are centers for strange and unusual occurrences.
By the way, it's your game if you're the GM. You can spice it up and add monsters as you see fit. Just as long as it is fun for the players, IMHO.
Bruce

[Zhaleskra]

In older D&D cosmology (3.5 and earlier), there were two energy planes: positive and negative. The description of the Raaig specifically mentions that they are animated by positive energy. The story gets a little mixed up, but whether Athas had gods or never did, these creatures are considered undead and suffer from some undead disadvantages, namely not being able to travel too far from the temple they protect.

On another line, I've seen some silly movies where a normally evil undead has helped the living. The one I remember had Dracula help fight the Nazis.

Returning to the original subject: I don't believe in positive energy being good and negative energy being bad. They are just creation and destruction and JUST ARE, as far as I am concerned. If you get too much of either, they're both bad.

[dagorhir]

In my view, undead are not actually evil, nor are they good. They will attack anyone or anything they come across. If some curse or enchantment has been placed on a site to cause undead to rise and protect an area they will simply do so.

There's no need for for positive or negative energies. An undead is simply an undead no matter what brings them into existence.

Such sites actually do exist in my campaign setting. I simply consider the sites of having an enchantment that will cast the Create Undead spell. Also, I allow the Speak with the dead spell to be used to speak with the undead in an attempt to reason with them.

[Thom @ ICE]

Undead attacking depends upon their level of reasoning.
As for positive and negative, I have read somewhere (though I don't remember where) that:


Negative Energy - Represents the lack of spiritual life force (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, mummies, etc.)
Positive Energy - Represents the abundance of spiritual life force but lack of physical (ghosts, spectres, etc.)
The greater the balance between negative and positive, the greater their ability to reason and often how well they can pass themselves off among the living.


Undead are simply creatures that live after death.

[Zhaleskra]

Thom, although I don't have the Terrors Beyond Tyr Monsterous Compendium with me right now, your reading of an unknown source seems to fit what I remember about Raaigs. I think they could manifest a physical form, though it's possible I'm misremembering.

Also attacking based on reasoning makes a lot more sense, especially with the nearly mindless HARP Skeletons and Zombies.

[Bruce]

Undead attacking depends upon their level of reasoning.
As for positive and negative, I have read somewhere (though I don't remember where) that:


Negative Energy - Represents the lack of spiritual life force (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, mummies, etc.)
Positive Energy - Represents the abundance of spiritual life force but lack of physical (ghosts, spectres, etc.)
The greater the balance between negative and positive, the greater their ability to reason and often how well they can pass themselves off among the living.


Undead are simply creatures that live after death.

That's basically the way I feel and run my games.
Though there are things in my world I describe as evil and are inherently so. It is just the way things work in the games I run. I also prescribe to the theory behind the "Unlife" in Shadow World.
Undead like zombies are an abomination because of the way they work and are created. There is no real life in them, they are simply animated with what I would call negative energy.   They have a hunger that must be satiated, and it is only satiated by the devouring of the living. That is how I describe them in my world.
 
Bruce

[dagorhir]

Undead attacking depends upon their level of reasoning.
As for positive and negative, I have read somewhere (though I don't remember where) that:


Negative Energy - Represents the lack of spiritual life force (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, mummies, etc.)
Positive Energy - Represents the abundance of spiritual life force but lack of physical (ghosts, spectres, etc.)
The greater the balance between negative and positive, the greater their ability to reason and often how well they can pass themselves off among the living.


Undead are simply creatures that live after death.

I guess my closest thing to positive or negative energy would angelic or demonic spirits. One could say that undead are corpses imbued or animated by these spirits. The body of the undead remain dead but are animated by the spirit that has been called. The more powerful the spirit, the more powerful the undead, and the more the ability to reason.

[Zhaleskra]

Necroing my topic after reading about the other Lantern Corps, mostly Black and Red, but also remembering Driq, a Green Lantern whose willpower was so strong his Green Lantern ring would not let his life force leave (he was undead way before Blackest Night). With the Red Lanterns, they're essentially undead too: the ring stops their hearts and replaces their blood with red energy.

While some argue that they are necessarily evil, I feel sorry for them, even those as bad as Atrocitus. Is "we'll burn you all, that is your fate" necessarily a death sentence? With Atrocitus, probably yes. In general, is it any more specific than "In the name of the Moon, I'll punish you"? No. Their "hellish hate"? Totally justified.