Topic: Maneuver penalties and skill maneuver rolls

[choc]

Hello community!

I was wondering about maneuver penalties. Movement maneuver penalties apply to moving maneuvers (and melee).

But what about injury penalties like concussion hits, criticals, exhaustion?
Do they also apply to perception rolls?
Do they also apply to lore maneuver rolls?
Do they apply to self control skill rolls, especially to stun removal?

We didn't play a while but I think we normally used them but mainly we didn't use these skills in combat after hits loss or critical penalties or we forgot them at the very late eve.....

Any ideas, FAQs or errato for this issue?

[Ecthelion]

We have a house rule in place that says that penalties from injuries apply in half to skills that do not require movement.

[Malim]

We only apply the pen to combat related skills!

[choc]

Thank you a lot.
But these are house rules.

Any Errata, FAQ, or official rules (in CL, RMFRP, AL etc)?

I've only found Critical Penalties
    Penalties from ciritcal only affect physical actions, not mental ones. [* Tim Dugger (forums) 20030207]  in RoleMaster Rulings

But that doesn't help very much ....

[VladD]

it simply means: the penalties affect any action that is physical, such as combat, or moving maneuvers. Mental actions, such as attunement and meditation do not suffer the penalties.

I would apply the penalties to mental actions as well. There is no reason not to and I think it really is harder to concentrate when you are bleeding and missing a limb. Those penalties usually apply only to the Healer, though, so other people don't really care about penalties. 

[choc]

Oh I see.
Physical skills are skills with any of the 4 physical stats (Strength, Constitution, Agility, Quickness) or any of the 'half-physical' (Presence, Self Discipline) too?

I can see your point with bleeding, ie blood in the eyes make it harder to see, continuing blood loss (what bleeding is per rules) harder to concentrate.
But my personal experience with fractures is different. I didn't get handicapped by a fractured limb to read, watch tv, calculate, remember, think of the bride side of life... Maybe at the accident including trauma and shock but definitely not the next day(s). Actually some fractures make me think deeper and more crystal clear.

[RandalThor]

I have always done it where the full modifier is applied to all physical actions, running, swimming, fighting, climbing, etc... but also that mental actions, lore, spellcasting, perception, etc... are affected by half (round down) of the modifier. The reason for this, is that when you are hurt or tired you are not operating at 100%; think about when you have been awake for a long time and how that can make you a bit "loopy," and not think "straight." Now, imagine having to come up with everything you know about a particular creature or whatever, when you have a big gash running down your leg, and you are bleeding out. (OK, hopefully your compatriots have bound your injury and stopped the bleeding before that information is needed.  )

I think Remove Stun has a specific table on modifiers, due to the nature of the skill, so I think we left that one as is.

[VladD]

I like the half penalty rule: it makes sense.

[choc]

I agree about exhaustion, bleeding and concussion hits penalties. The half penalty rule is written somewhere? Somehow I can remember it or sheets where it was written on....

But I don't agree about criticals. As my personal experience, a fracture hurts less and disturbs less than a bruise or strain. I can fully operate and work with a fractured whatever as long as it doesn't affect my work (ie a fractured foot or leg at office work in a chair). It's the bruise that hurts. Some fractures I only noticed by the 'blue' marks on the skin.

Anyways, I'm looking for something in a FAQ or errata...

[VladD]

You can work with a fractured leg only because it has been splinted. This will reduce the penalty and any pain you'll get from it. I am talking about free flowing blood, dangling broken limbs and other things dreadfully encroaching on your concentration. That is where the full penalty comes from.

There is no official rule, as in RAW, except from former ICE RM employee Tim Dugger aka Rasyr. He said no penalty. I might agree if the injuries are treated. If there is no treatment, I would apply half penalty because meditating with one leg broken is still easier than hunting or climbing a cliff face with one leg broken.
With treatment, it might be a good rule to state that physical actions are at 50% original penalty and getting less every day it heals and for mental actions no penalty, unless the injury is something like a broken skull, a bruised brain or something in that order of magnitude.

[choc]

Ok, got your point (although I didn't talk about a splinted fracture...anyways).

So you put a -50 penalty as a -50 or a -25 on stun removal SM?
The core book says SD and PR are half physical half mental stats.

[RandalThor]

I think the best way to look at it, instead of if a stat is half-mental/half-physical, is: does the skill involve gross body movement or movement of the injured limb? If it does, then they get the full modifier, if not, then half.