Topic: Trying to immobilize with wrestling

[JohnK]

I am thinking of permitting a character to immobilize an enemy with a wrestling attack.
1)First he makes a normal wrestling attack with his OB subtracting enemy DB
2)Then IF he obtains a critical he immobilizes his enemy but
3)Only if the enemy loses a RR vs the characters number of ranks in wrestling as attack lvl.
Enemy resists at a lvl equal to his wrestling skill ranks (even if he has 0 ranks he resists at 1st lvl). He also gets a RRoll bonus of Ag+Ag+St.
Any suggestions?

[yammahoper]

Hmm.  Possible options;

A crit additional +20 to rr, B crit +10, C crit +0, D crit -10 and E crit -20 to rr.

Target may also make rr at a level equal to sweeps or locks and holds instead of just wrestling.  Or any trained hand to hand combat skill really.

Against an armed foe, wrestler automatically loses initiative.  The skill as described is very powerful.  I myself would go with normal initiative, with armed foe receiving +4 init mod for longer weapon AND the wrestler cannot parry an armed foe.  I assume wrestler must drop weapon to make grapple attack (or quickdraw it back into sheath) and the attack requires 100% activity.

[arakish]

Use the Grapple/Envelope attack table.  Since man-sized, use Medium as the maximum result.

If have the skill MA Grapple, then add +1 size class (large maximum).

rmfr

[arakish]

I went back into my notes and found this:

For regular wrestling, if man-sized, then use Small as maximum result on Grapple/Envelope table.  But can develop skill to increase max result to Medium (must have minimum of 10 ranks).

If using the skill MA Grapple, then it depends on the Degree rank:
Degree 1 = Small
Degree 2 = Medium
Degree 3 and 4 = Large

My previous post was done from memory, and it does not always work properly...

rmfr

[Marrethiel]

Crits don't work well, from experience, as a pinning tool.
You could try linking the crits to a contested MM, just brainstorming really.
Maybe, the initial attack does a crit, then a contested MM; the crit level could modify the difficulty. Then you need to get a total of 100 percent over multiple rounds to pin your opponent.
eg
Sweep does a C crit
Attacker does a routine MM and gets a result of 50
Defender does a Hard MM and gets a result of 20
Defender is 30% restrained.
Next round, MM's continue.

I think most roleplaying games struggle with grappling and pinning to an extent.

[arakish]

I have always used the critical to determine the amount of "grapple".  Then it would become an MM contest for the target to break free, or become more grappled.

rmfr

[JohnK]

I like the idea of the multi-round struggle and the contested MM.
As said above, gaining a critical means that the attacker has a chance to lock the target, partially or even completely.
Difficulty of maneuvers may vary:
1) A fighter grappling a magician who's concentrating, rolls on the Light column and the magician resists on Medium.
2) If the magician actively resists the grapple, means that both roll on the same column.
Stats added are Ag+Ag+St.
Things become easy for the fighter this way.
Maybe increase the fighter's fumble range to 1-4, to reflect the difficulty of the move.
Doesn't he also get more exposed to an attack? eg. a hidden dagger.

[Marrethiel]

I like the idea of the multi-round struggle and the contested MM.
As said above, gaining a critical means that the attacker has a chance to lock the target, partially or even completely.
Difficulty of maneuvers may vary:
1) A fighter grappling a magician who's concentrating, rolls on the Light column and the magician resists on Medium.
2) If the magician actively resists the grapple, means that both roll on the same column.
Stats added are Ag+Ag+St.
Things become easy for the fighter this way.
Maybe increase the fighter's fumble range to 1-4, to reflect the difficulty of the move.
Doesn't he also get more exposed to an attack? eg. a hidden dagger.

Or base it on what skill is being used, Routine for Wrestling, Medium for Athletics, Hard for Acrobatics or Very Hard untrained.

[JohnK]

These ideas are interesting.
I use contested MM very rarely and sometimes i don't find the skills system flexible enough.
But this is another discussion and deserves a new topic (or has it been discussed in detail elsewhere?)