Topic: Strange Lack of Activity on the HARP Forums

[Alwyn]

Is it me, or has there been a severe drop in the amount of activity/postings in the HARP Forums as of late?  Is there something in the winds I have missed?  I hope one of my favorite RPGs isn't heading down the road to extinction! 

There doesn't seem to be much interest in HARP these days. are there still HARP fans out there?  I know ICE is working on a few new HARP products, but no one is talking much about HARP.

[Peter R]

HARP is frequently mentioned on other boards and in the director's briefings. I just think all the focus right now is on RMU.

[pyrotech]

Well I can't speak for others, but I do know that I submitted a HARP article to TCG a few weeks ago.  I suspect we will see it in next months or maybe December's edition.  That is assuming it isn't such a mess that they can't use it. I was never able to turn it into the article I really wanted to write and so I finally just bit the bullet and submitted what I had.

Of course two days after submitting it I saw numerous grammer errors, a couple spelling errors, and several sentences that I could rewrite for clarity.

Other than that I am keenly watching for a final countdown on HARP Bestiary.  The sample they included in the latest TGC looked really well done.

Right now my group is bouncing back and forth between D&D5e and HARP/HARP S-F games.  I don't see that changing anytime in the near future.

Regards,

[Peter R]

I am waiting on the bestiary too.

[dagorhir]

HARP is on hold for me until the Bestiary comes out. Development and play madness will then ensue.

[Zhaleskra]

When people have had their questions answered, they stop asking them. Forums always reach a saturation point, they also always reach a resurgence point. Unless the forum shuts down.

People aren't asking about HARP because they don't have questions to ask right now.

[Alwyn]

When people have had their questions answered, they stop asking them. Forums always reach a saturation point, they also always reach a resurgence point. Unless the forum shuts down.

People aren't asking about HARP because they don't have questions to ask right now.

That may be true.  But in the past, there was always more postings on the HARP forums another than questions.  May be not as many people are playing HARP as RM nowdays.

Anyway, I am also looking forward to the Bestiary when it finally comes out.  It just seems that ICE isn't putting HARP to the forefront of their line like they used to.  I guess RMU is the lead priority for now.

I am not complaining mind you, just curious as to the lack of posts lately.  I know Nicholas is busy and will get to HARP when he can.

[Thom @ ICE]

I would say that there are 3 significant contributors to the reduced posting on the HARP boards.
1 - Focus on RMU system development (by both forum members and ICE team members)
2 - Waiting for Bestiary release so that Cyradon and other products can get moving again
3 - Without new product releases it does not pick up a  lot of new players and those who have been playing already have worked through the rules pieces that were not clear.

[Peter R]

That may be true.  But in the past, there was always more postings on the HARP forums another than questions.  May be not as many people are playing HARP as RM nowdays.

I don't think that is true. I have a poll on my blog asking which version of RM people play and HARP is the third most popular and the blog is not even about HARP. If anything  HARP punches above its weight in popularity.

Edit: I just checked the stats and HARP is the second most popular RM version after RM2.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

At the moment, much focus is on RMU, and necessarily so as we want the new edition to be a success. So I am spending some of my "publisher/editor" time wrestling with resolving dealbreakers.

However, HARP is not forgotten. I've spent the last several evening train commutes thinking about Elementals and how they can be made more distinctive. I am considering whether instead of five types of Elementals which have x levels of warrior and y levels of elementalist/mage, it would be more interesting to have "Elemental Warriors", "Elemental Hunters", "Elemental Savants" where each has some special abilities which rise with Type and have a focus in say fighter/warrior mage, hunter/ranger and intellectual/elementalist professions (Hunter and Intellectual are Folkways professions) and perhaps have Elemental Steeds and Elemental Servitors which might only be at Type I. Thoughts?

You can expect more HARP-related previews in the Guild Companion as well.

Bestiary is the logjam. Once we clear Bestiary, lots of other stalled HARP products can move.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[pyrotech]

Hmmm.

Elementals are a pretty broad group of monsters.  Rather than having 3 bumjillion specific varieties it may be much easier to simply create a role/magnitude classification system.

This would be especially useful if the rules included ideas for tweaking individual variants.  So the Bestiary could include the archtypical Class 3 elemental hunter with the earth traits - the GM could easily tweak it to have 3 arms and teeth (for example). 

I could certainly support this notion. 

Regards,

[kwickham]

I'm considering trying HARP. I mistakenly bought an old RMX based on a review that said that HARP was like MERP. I hate RMX the more I look at it. HARP looked nice, when I saw it at my friends house. It was the old version though, I'm pretty sure.

[Bruce]

I run a HARP game just about every week at the local game store. One of my players has even started his own HARP group, though I think it is at his home. Regardless HARP is alive and well here on my end of things. One of my players will occasionally run a Savage Worlds Sci Fi game but the primary game is and will be HARP.

The campaign I am running takes place in Anias, pre-exodus to Belynar. Technically speaking it is about a year before the exodus and in the next two weeks I will be running my annual horror game. This particular time I will have the party taking on an old shut down hospital for the "seriously" disturbed.....

[WoeRie]

I stopped my HARP campaign after the Echoes of Heaven series started releasing less frequently enough to keep it running without too much troubles. And to be honest I think the "new" edition is not what I would have expected from a new edition. We are waiting for years, now, to have it simply re-released and the changes are more or less only integrated house rules I already played. So, nearly no changes, except of a worse layout and look and feel (in my opinion) and nothing new since many years... no Shadow World support, no Griffin Island re-release, no new adventures, nothing...

I think I simply lost interest... however I'm still playing RM2 and checking RMU (but this is not my kind of system, as it got more complicated instead of less).
And heh! I'm reading the new posts for HARP, so yes, I still hope that HARP may come back with a BIG BANG!

[Thom @ ICE]

HARP was not a new version or new edition.  It was an enhanced version with some basic issues addressed.  This was clearly stated during the re-release and the changes were announced so it should not have been a surprise.  Our apologies if you expected something different. 


As far as layout, look and feel - I don't believe there were significant changes, although there was a lot of new art added and generally it was used to replace repeated images with new images.  I personally feel the art that was added was excellent.  There were other changes made to layout, look and feel -  but I don't believe any of it was major (though I could be wrong, it's been a while since I looked at the old books).


Agreed that it's unfortunate that the bestiary project has taken far longer than originally planned, and there are numerous reasons for that.  This project is the current bottleneck for all of the HARP projects and once it is completed it will open the floodgates for a number of other projects as Nicholas has been sharing in his regular director briefing reports.

[WoeRie]

HARP was not a new version or new edition.  It was an enhanced version with some basic issues addressed.  This was clearly stated during the re-release and the changes were announced so it should not have been a surprise.  Our apologies if you expected something different. 

Sure I remember that, and yes, sadly my expectations were higher as I always hoped to be suprised. But I've not said that you anounced it as a new version, but there is no benefit for me (and all of the old players) in the new version at all.

As far as layout, look and feel - I don't believe there were significant changes, although there was a lot of new art added and generally it was used to replace repeated images with new images.  I personally feel the art that was added was excellent.  There were other changes made to layout, look and feel -  but I don't believe any of it was major (though I could be wrong, it's been a while since I looked at the old books).

Yes, some of the new art is nice. But some was removed. I see at least some Laubenstein pcitures missing and some of the new art I do not like at all, as it looks unfinished and/or unprofessional (again I'm talking about personal taste). Further I prefered the look and feel of the old books, which was different. Look at the borders, look at the font and how the tables are presented. Again, this is NO dealbreaker, just personal taste.

Agreed that it's unfortunate that the bestiary project has taken far longer than originally planned, and there are numerous reasons for that.  This project is the current bottleneck for all of the HARP projects and once it is completed it will open the floodgates for a number of other projects as Nicholas has been sharing in his regular director briefing reports.

Sure, I fully understand the problem here. But maybe it was a very bad idea to start a new revision of Rolemaster while there is a bottleneck like that. Maybe they are not influencing each other, what I doubt, but I can only speculate here. Maybe it would have helped if Nicholas had "duplicated" himself, which you have to learn to do in every business, once you reach a specific level (to talk in RPG words) if you do not want to create a bottleneck.

Sorry, if I start to write myself into a rage... but I really love HARP. I played it during the time of the old ICE and I was very concerend as nothing useful came out in years. Only the small bazaars and other small stuff. Then came the big change and GCP took over. I was enthusiastic. I really loved the idea of a new team bringing HARP back to live. Of course it took some time... but now, after many years, I have to say it is much worse than it was before. There is simply nothing coming out anymore, not even small stuff like before. And there was so much promised (like HARP for Shadow World), but yes, I know, everything waits for the Bestiary 

I'm no troll, I really love the game! And I already wrote hundreds pages of material for the game and I had hundreds of hours fun with that game. Believe me, I hope that everything changes, soon and I will regret every word I wrote here.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

Nicholas tried to duplicate himself so that someone else was handling RMU in order to allow me to edit Terry (because Terry cannot edit Terry) and run HARP/HARP SF/Cyradon. It did not work out, so I've had to take over all the lines again.

Not quite everything is waiting for the Bestiary:
HARP Folkways needs artwork and layout. Layout will be straightforward. Artwork requires either myself or Terry to organise an artwork list and commission the artists. If Terry is back in business quickly after his house move, then he'll be back on the Folkways case.

HARP SF's The Poseidon Gambit is heading towards full draft.

We are doing our best to get Bestiary complete as quickly as possible. However, it is the only bottleneck in the HARP / HARP SF lineup

And there will be more HARP previews appearing in the Guild Companion.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[darb]

Still, the last new release for the system was CoM, in 2004.  That is much longer than can be explained by waiting on Beastiary.  I know I gave up on the system and moved my group to GURPS because, although I really liked HARP, it was just a deadend. 

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

Still, the last new release for the system was CoM, in 2004.  That is much longer than can be explained by waiting on Beastiary.  I know I gave up on the system and moved my group to GURPS because, although I really liked HARP, it was just a deadend. 

2004??? CoM was not the last Mjolnir-era HARP product. Did you not see Monsters: a Field Guide or Loot: a Field Guide?

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Peter R]

The RMU beta is definitely driving interest in HARP. Since testing RMU I discovered that many of its features that were new to me were standard in HARP but with the advantage of being tested and stable. I am not the only one Kwickham has also expressed an interest in the system. It is entirely possible that the HARP community is getting an injection of new blood because of RMU.