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Offline adad

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RR and maneuvers
« on: July 02, 2017, 11:47:26 PM »
Hi, I'm new to the rules and this confuse me.
 Are RR maneuvers? I red the stun rule wich said 'any other action requiring a naneuver roll receives a modifier of -50'
A roll to recover from stun receive a -50 modifier?

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2017, 12:11:56 AM »
RRs are not maneuvers, so maneuvers penalties do not apply.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.rpgnow.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline adad

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2017, 12:32:08 AM »
Spellcasting is a maneuver? Is it modified by stun?

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 02:03:14 AM »
Utility spells are maneuvers and penalties apply. Attack and Elemental Attack spells are maneuvers and attacks, and it is not allowed to make an attack while stunned.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.rpgnow.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline adad

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 06:38:27 AM »
I found the Base movement rate paragraph (pp29) unclear. Is it a Maneuver to move at faster pace in dangerous or difficult conditions?
What exactly mean this paragraph: “Unobstructed or routine movement under ordinary conditions should never require a Maneuver Roll.”
I figure out under dangerous or difficult conditions movement require a Maneuver?
Is it a stat (agility) maneuver? is it a percentile (agility) maneuver?
Examples: If I run in a wood excapin goblins  is it a maneuver? If I fast run up a stairwall to attack my enemy is it a climb maneuver?
 

Offline adad

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 07:06:05 AM »
I found the Base movement rate paragraph (pp29) unclear. Is it a Maneuver to move at faster pace in dangerous or difficult conditions?
What exactly mean this paragraph: “Unobstructed or routine movement under ordinary conditions should never require a Maneuver Roll.”
I figure out under dangerous or difficult conditions movement require a Maneuver?
Is it a stat (agility) maneuver? is it a percentile (agility) maneuver?
Examples: If I run in a wood excapin goblins  is it a maneuver? If I fast run up a stairwall to attack my enemy is it a climb maneuver?
 

Example: flat terrain, good visibility I dash to attack a goblin, is it a maneuver?

Offline dagorhir

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 08:28:07 AM »
There really isn't any set rule for maneuver rolls for movement. You can basically do what you feel is right.

As for your example, flat terrain, good visibility, I wouldn't require a maneuver. It's a flat unobstructed path. A stairwell is also unobstructed terrain, albeit uneven. No maneuver there as far as I'm concerned.

What I generally do in the case where there are obstructions (trees, very rough terrain, serious slope, furniture, etc), I might require a maneuver, but the worst non-fumble outcome it that the terrain prevents the desired movement. I tend to use the percent column to determine how much movement was actually achieved.

Offline pyrotech

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 07:30:57 PM »
Another common and related question is what skill is used for movement rolls.  And the answer here depends on how the character is moving, but for normal moving quickly on two legs it uses the Sports: Running skill.

This is a gotcha that bothered me for a long while until Nicholas posted something on it.

Regards,
-Pyrotech

Offline Bruce

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 09:31:21 PM »
Another common and related question is what skill is used for movement rolls.  And the answer here depends on how the character is moving, but for normal moving quickly on two legs it uses the Sports: Running skill.

This is a gotcha that bothered me for a long while until Nicholas posted something on it.

Regards,
There is no Sports: Running skill in the core rules. If they are using all the stuff including Folkways then they may or may not use that skill.

I personally do not recommend using this skill. Anyone can run, especially if they are in decent shape as most adventurers tend to be. If they are doing something extraordinary or pushing their run beyond their base limits then yes, I would use some kind of skill roll for that.
When you game, game like you mean it! Game Hard!

Offline adad

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2017, 02:55:31 PM »
I find the wording of the base movement rate misleading. It suggest movement could require a maneuver roll but don't state how. The same in the adventuring chapter. It's a heavy fault on the rule system.

Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 04:27:11 PM »
You only require movement maneuvers when there is something awkward in the mix such as messy terrain.

Sports:Running is available for those using Folkways or  access to HARP SF.  For characters without the skill, use an Agility stat maneuver instead.

The rules are vague on when to call for a roll, but that's about trying to discourage GMs for asking for rolls when there's nothing at stake or when it is clearly a walk in the park.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.rpgnow.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline adad

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2017, 03:45:06 PM »
It could be better worded and explained in the rules. I think it's a good rule system but movement maneuvers are too vague to an inexpert like me.
In general a great number of examples is very helping to newbies.

Offline Charlie Four

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2017, 10:27:13 AM »
Yes, one of the "flaws" of HARP is that it sort of assumes the GM coming with already enough experience with a different game, not a brand new player/GM.

A Maneuver, using the Rolemaster definition, is anything that involves risk, a chance of failure or has a consequence for failing. So, before calling for a roll, you should ask yourself whether that action actually can fail, if it can succeed or if there's any consequence for failing. If none of them apply, no roll.

If the PC is sprinting Indiana Jones' style towards a door that's closing before he gets locked in, that's a maneuver. If the PC is sprinting to the swiming pool and dive as a downtime activity, it isn't as there is nothing at stake in that situation.

I recommend reading the AngryGM 5 Simple Rules for Dating My Teenaged Skill System article, it's good advice for new GMs, if you can ignore the rambling and don't mind his cartoonish persona. :P

Offline Karizma

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Re: RR and maneuvers
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 11:06:52 AM »
I found the Base movement rate paragraph (pp29) unclear. Is it a Maneuver to move at faster pace in dangerous or difficult conditions?
What exactly mean this paragraph: “Unobstructed or routine movement under ordinary conditions should never require a Maneuver Roll.”
I figure out under dangerous or difficult conditions movement require a Maneuver?
Is it a stat (agility) maneuver? is it a percentile (agility) maneuver?
Examples: If I run in a wood excapin goblins  is it a maneuver? If I fast run up a stairwall to attack my enemy is it a climb maneuver?
 


The way I read it, the difficulty in attempting to perform actions while moving is modified. On the table, the far right column lists "Normal Maneuver Difficulty," This means that if the GM decides the action being performed would normally be a "Medium" difficulty, it stays such at a Walk, but the same action becomes Hard if you try to do it while Running. The text then clarifies that these are suggestions, and the terrain may increase difficulty.

That "Unobstructed or routine movement..." line is a bit superfluous, but I think it simply means that the act of movement does not necessitate a roll. But say, dodging obstacles (Agility Stat Manuever or Athletics: Parkour if you want to make up a skill for it) could be a roll, or keeping up a pace over long term by making a Stamina Resistance Roll against tiring out from running too long. The risk factors that the GM creates should not have to involve tripping onto the ground for no good reason.

 

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