Author Topic: New Spells: "Push" and "Pull"  (Read 2754 times)

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Offline janpmueller

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New Spells: "Push" and "Pull"
« on: August 03, 2007, 06:58:06 AM »
Hi there,

I was trying to make spells with an effect similar to what Jedi knights do when pushing their opponents away with the force or "calling" their light sabers to them. I couldn't find anything similar (but I'm open for clarification if there *is* a spell that does that).
So, here is what I came up with, I'd love some comments on the spell-building (especially concerning the affected weight and the used object aspects).

Push
PP Cost: 5
Range: 10'
Duration: --
Spell Type: Attack
RR: Stamina
Description: Allows the caster to push against any material, to move it as if shoving it away. In its base form, the spell allows things or persons to be shoved with a force of 1 pound per rank. Sentient beings resist with their stamina, inanimate objects resist with a value deemed appropiate by the GM.
Scaling options:
+2PP   Increase Range (to 50')
+3PP   Increase Range (to 100')
+4PP   For each additional target
+5PP   Additional Force (10 pounds per rank)
+10PP   Additional Force (100 pounds per rank)

The costs were calculated as follows:
Action: Move (5). Objects: Path (5), Mass (2*10). Aspects equal 30
Attributes: Normal Casting (0), Range: 10' (20), 1 target (10), Duration: Instant (5) equals 35.
Total value = 65, * 0,5*65 (increase mass to 1 lb per rank) = 98. 98 / 20 = 5.

Comment: The +10PP option seems way to powerful to me, although I like the idea of a Push Spell toppling walls and statues. Should I just arbitrarily increase the cost?
Also, would there be a guideline for resising objects? Just with their weight in pounds, maybe?
At last, the aspects: I didn't take the body aspect, because the spell "doesn't care" if it's living or dead substance (unlike hurt or healing spells), it just moves matter. Do you agree?



Pull
PP Cost: 4
Range: 10'
Duration: --
Spell Type: Attack
RR: Stamina
Description: Allows the caster to magically pull things into his or her hands. In its base form, the spell can only effect objects of up to 1 pound in a maximum distance of 10' from the caster.
Scaling options:
+2PP   Increase Range (to 50')
+3PP   Increase Range (to 100')
+4PP   For each additional target
+2PP   Additional Force (1 pound per rank)
+4PP   Additional Force (10 pounds per rank)

The costs:
Action: Move (5). Objects: Path (5), Mass (2*10). Aspects equal 30
Attributes: Normal Casting (0), Range: 10' (20), 1 target (10), Duration: Instant (5) equals 35.
Total value = 65. 65 / 20 = 4.

Comment: Here, I left out the big scaling option ("Pulling" a big rock into your hands seems such a bad idea).
Resistance of objects and chosen aspect stand to question as with "Push".



Overall comments: I thought, for both spells, to add another scaling options for complexer movements. This would mean (a) Push/ Pull somewhere (not directly away from/ towards the caster, but also to the left or right), +5PP, (b) Push in a complex way (like turning or twisting an object out of reach) +8 PP and.
An alternative to basing the spell on weight would be to do it with size. So, the base form would move tiny objects, and you'd have to scale it for more. What I like about that alternative is that huge things would be +16, what I don't like is that weight just feels more important (an anvil and a bag of feathers are both medium size, but have very different weights) Then again, didn't Yoda explain to Luke that weight didn't matter?  ;D. "Do or do not. There is no try."

So, I'm open for input! Thanks a lot,

Jan
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 07:08:50 AM by janpmueller »
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Offline kasalin

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Re: New Spells: "Push" and "Pull"
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2007, 08:19:15 AM »
There is a Telekinesis spell in HARP Codex (p. 44) that does what you are proposing.  The primary difference seems to be that the Telekinesis spell indicates a movement rate for the object being moved.   Your costs and options reflect the existing spell.
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Offline munchy

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Re: New Spells: "Push" and "Pull"
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2007, 08:33:00 AM »
If you push a human with a force of 50 lbs (about 25 kilos) would this result in quite a powerful critical hit (unbalancing, krush or even impact), especially as it is not a gentle pushing but a shoving that is done with the spell.
Seems too dangerous or too similar to the air bolt spell which would do impact crits and basically have the same effect.

I would go for the Telekinesis spell for the utitlity and for the Air Bolt spell for the attack.
The pull effect would be similar, Telekinesis again for utility and maybe on of the tentacle spells or something for the attack - although here there is no word about humans to be pulled in you spell, only objects.
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Dr_Sage

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Re: New Spells: "Push" and "Pull"
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2007, 12:15:46 PM »
One thing is interesting on his scalling options: the weight to be manipulated.

I love the telekinesis spell, but as it is written it can?t manipulate much weight, even with 25 ranks in the spell.

PS: I think The Air Bolt does a LIgtling Critical and has NO official knockback attack. Maybe he could use the "Force Wave Spell"?

Offline Right Wing Wacko

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Re: New Spells: "Push" and "Pull"
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2007, 04:25:23 PM »
yeah.. the air ball and bolt do electrical crits... earth does impact and water does cold.

...although a GM may change them if he/she wishes ;)
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Offline janpmueller

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Re: New Spells: "Push" and "Pull"
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 03:37:05 AM »
Hi all,

darned, the spell index I have doesn't cover the Codex - these two spells are perfect! Force Wave is pretty much what I intended to do with "Push", and Telekinesis would only need a little tweaking. It sounds to me as if the caster would make a slow and controlled thing - I want a magical grabbing.
Maybe I'd just let the caster do it quickly for a penalty, or he'd have to make an agility maneuver to catch the thing. Or scaling options for more speed, naturally (at BMR: +4PP (easy AG), at double BMR: +8PP (hard AG)).

Dr Sage: The weight options were taken from the rules in CoM - for the Telekinesis spellthough, the author seemed to have the same feeling I had - tele-manipulating giant rocks just seems a little off-balanced (would rather be a balance issue than an in-game limitation to magic), so the usual 1lb, 10lbs, 100lbs was changed to 1lb, 5lbs, 10lbs.

Please note that I did specifically not intend to let the Push spell be used as an attack. The Force Wave is nice, because with these costs, the critical option won't be used very often (6 + 3*4 = 18 PP for a medium attack...).

Thanks everyone for pointing me to these spells!

Jan
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