Author Topic: probably a silly question about skill development  (Read 4209 times)

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Offline Witchking20k

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probably a silly question about skill development
« on: August 24, 2007, 08:28:49 PM »
How many skill catagories develop at 2 DPs?

Many of the professions have 6 Skill Catagories listed as favoured catagories.  Surely these don't all develop at 2 DPs?
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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 08:41:53 PM »
Actually, they do.

Ex:
Ranger:
Outdoor, Combat, Mystical Arts, General, Subterfuge, and Physical all develop at 2dp per rank

Artistic, Athletic, Concentration, and Influence skills develop at 4dp per rank.

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Offline janpmueller

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2007, 03:16:07 AM »
Witchking, I totally understand your irritation.

I think that there are 2 main points in character development that result in "unfair" progressing of characters: (1) Development points based on stats and (2) differing number of favored categories. Although one might argue that life isn't fair, why should roleplaying be, or, speaking more sense, that characters with many favored categories won't specialize, so won't excel, I still tend to try to fix both.

Concerning favored categories (FCs), I occasionally think about removing professions altogether, and everyone chooses a fixed number of FCs (as proposed here), say 5 (half of the categories). An option is thinkable to buy another category, but I believe it should cost every level. (Edit: Or, for, say, 15 DP, you can buy ONE additional category that develops at 3 points, and that's it. For generalists like the rogue. Instead of paying 15 DP, a player cut also trade off any professional ability).
Concerning DPs, I usually give everyone the mean value of available points, rounding up. So, if my 3 players have 41, 42 and 44 DPs, everyone gets 43. That way, improving stats still makes sense, and even for the group as a whole.

On a sidenote: I play with the thought of dropping levels as the means of progressing, instead giving out DPs directly, maybe bound to certain categories. "Oh, very nice how you interacted with the dragon - you receive 2 DPs in the Influence category" or just "wow, great roleplaying: 2 DPs". That's unfair again, of course, but at least I reward the good player, not the good min-maxer. As you still need levels to determine certain effects, I'd let the players keep track of the point total they have invested, and a 160 point char would be fresh level 4.

Jan
« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 03:24:08 AM by janpmueller »
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2007, 07:08:28 AM »
Actually, I haven't played HARP yet, but have been preparing for character creation with my group in the next few days.

It does seem a bit strange that a Mage would get 4 favoured cats, and only get Sense Magic as a professional skill; while a rogue gets 7 favoured cats & +5 to a different skill every 3 levels. 

Perhaps this is a game balance mechanism or soemthing, but as I saide, I haven't played yet.

My intitial reaction was to customize that aspect and say well, 4 catagories develop at 2 & 1 catagory at 3.  General has to be one of these.
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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2007, 07:11:18 AM »
My recommendation regarding all house rules is - play the game as written first - customize after if needed.   
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Offline janpmueller

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2007, 11:03:29 AM »
I agree with ChosenGM. If you never played, you will probably find that the impact of the favored categories is not actually that big. I still feel it's fairer to fix it, but it's by no means necessary for balance or something. My group tells me to just stick with how it is, so it can't feel to unfair to them :)
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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2007, 09:34:02 PM »
My recommendation regarding all house rules is - play the game as written first - customize after if needed.  

This is good advice indeed.

But regarding your irritation janpmueller, indeed there are some imbalances in character creation. One of the best examples I could give is the comparison of the Mage with the Elementalist.

Of course we could argue that the Mage is more versatile, but that justifies Elementalist receiving more Professional Telents? (Elemental Affinity)

There is an even more complicated situation when you compare spellcasters with non-spellcasters, but here is not the tread for that.  ;)

Anyway HARP is a great game, and I look forward to see furter developments. I suggest you play for some time and the come here with all the problems you may find. We well do our best to be there for you.

Regards!

Offline Witchking20k

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2007, 09:43:29 PM »
Well, I wouldn't rush into changing anything right away.  It just seems odd.  Why would anyone play a fighter if you could play a rogue and get all the same 4 catagories & 2 more to develop at 2DPs?  Surely its not the +10 to a skill every 5 levels?  Maybe you could do som cost benefit involving the cost of Shield Training or the Lightning Relfexes......

And it wasn't only the DPs that raised the question, it was the Sense Magic and no other skill bonuses like those mentioned above?

As mentioned I have not played yet, so I won't go changing anything.  Magic does look much more effective at low levels than I am accustomed to, so perhaps that is why.  It was more curious to see what other people have thought about it. 

Has anyone changed it?
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Dr_Sage

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2007, 09:38:46 AM »
Well, I wouldn't rush into changing anything right away.  It just seems odd.  Why would anyone play a fighter if you could play a rogue and get all the same 4 catagories & 2 more to develop at 2DPs?  Surely its not the +10 to a skill every 5 levels?  Maybe you could do som cost benefit involving the cost of Shield Training or the Lightning Relfexes......

Speaking stricktly about game mechanics/balace and ignoring roleplay for the momment, you are probably right.

Regards.

Offline allenrmaher

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2007, 02:37:58 PM »
The fighter can develop weapon/combat skills faster and to a slightly higher degree than a rogue.  Plus with the vast number of skills to buy... the rogue takes a while to catch up in combat effectiveness.  They can of course do so (but fighters have about a 40 DP head start 20 for talents and 20 for additional professional ranks)... but then why have the other categories?

Rogues are great... but I still like to have a few tanks handy in a fight.
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: probably a silly question about skill development
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2007, 06:38:10 PM »
Agreed.  I did not consider the intitial investment of DPs given by the profession.
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