Topic: More DPs at higher levels

[yammahoper]

On more DP's...I give 100DP a level, for everybody, regardless of stats.

The end result is players have been far more willing to take a very low stat and play penalty mods because they do not suffer a hit to DP.

I have also learned that 100DP is not unbalancing, though admittedly, my original 85DP a level was just fine too.  It was after looking at what 15 more dev a level meant (basically more secondary skill advancement) that I went to 100 DP.

lynn

[RandalThor]

OK, first of all: I can't believe you quote Calvin & Hobbes in your sig. I love that comic strip! Go Spaceman Spiff!!

I like to give a set amount of DPs per level and this last time it was 100 a level too. They don't need more DPs at higher levels, I feel that a method for being able to increase skills a little faster would be better.

What I mean is, say you are a 30th level magician and you want to pick some cool Self Control skill, like Stunned Removal (it really sucks to have your spell disrupted, I mean really, so what if you were stabbed in the kidney - its my spell and I want to cast it!! Mooooooommmmmmmm!!!!). Now you have a Self Control progression of 6. That means that only one rank per level could you gain. Let's change that by enforcing stricter training times (we all fudge on those, come on, you know you do......).

Say you cap it at a certain percentage of each level's DPs, we'll go with 30 pts to keep the math nice and easy. That means that when he gets to 31st level, he can pick up 5 ranks of Stunned Removal, but the training time could be months, maybe even up to a year. That does two things. Allows the character to gain a skill that they can actually see some use from immediately and gets rid of the too powerful 25 year old.

The 30th level magician should be getting on their in years, not still popping zits. (Unless, of course, he fumbled a spell and got whole body acne as a result! Sucks to be you.)

The maximum ranks I would allow them to get to with this method, would be equal to their level. This reflects that it is no longer a new skill, but one they are more familiar with so progression would slow down. For many skills the initial learning is the fastest, but then getting better after that initial push is much slower.

[Fornitus]

 For fighters and such we use an old optional rule.....
+1 to the crit / each rank subtracted from the attack.
Keeps the PC's buying ranks long after the OB quits increasing.

[RandalThor]

For fighters and such we use an old optional rule.....
+1 to the crit / each rank subtracted from the attack.
Keeps the PC's buying ranks long after the OB quits increasing.

I am not sure of what you are proposing with this rule. Are the fighters able to subract from thier OB a number equal to the number of ranks they have in the weapon and add those to any critical roles that might come from the attack? If so. Wow, that is a little empowering.

[yammahoper]

How about the ability to by as many ranks in new skill as the average of your Me/Sd mod?

lynn

[Fidoric]

And what costs do you propose ? If a skill costs 2/5 and I want to buy 5 ranks, how much do I pay ?
Perhaps it would be easier if all skills have a single cost, like in Harp.

[Balhirath]

If you want to speed up skill progression a bit, treat all skills as if they had a /20 behind it.
So a cost of 3 is really 3/20 and a cost of 2/7 is 2/7/20.
Going beyond that is IMO not wise since there have to be some kind of learning time, no matter how many points you allocate into a skill.
It's not like they woke up one morning after having spend all their Dp and then suddenly are master Smiths or woodcrafters. ("I have seen the light!")

For fighters, I use Multiple Attack Profiency which usually make them use DP on their weapons. Semi-spell users always need DP to get both Magic and non magic skills and Pure spell users can always use DP's on spells. Especially if you use Prosaic Magic from Spell users comapanion or if you use power point development.
Since your campaign is already running, you can have the players use Power Point development once they have exceeded the racial max for Power Points.

I do not hand out 100 Dp's per level. More like 60, since I give 50% more DP than the rules say.
BUT skills developed with a teacher (Which have to be at least 5 levels higher than the PC) can be bought at half the normal amount of DP.
This have the benefit of characters actually searching for good teachers and doing things for them because they want to be taught.






 

[yammahoper]

Average the cost, or pay both.  2, then 5, 2, then 5...


lynn

[Arioch]

On more DP's...I give 100DP a level, for everybody, regardless of stats.

I give 100DP per level, too and completely agree with you on that.

From this thread it seems that there are a lot of people who think that high-level fighters should have some kind of power-up and that dislike the rank/level limit someway...

[Fidoric]

I don't feel fighters need any boost in power. I have played a fighter for several years bringing him up to the 31st level and I never felt frustrated when compared with my fellow mage. One think I like particularly was the possibility for the fighter to develop into many areas of skills (leadership, outdoor... and even some magics).

However, in a campaign I Gmed long ago, I used a skill named Improved criticals. It was used to make criticals delivered by high level fighters more deadly than low level ones. I can't remember the cost assigned to that skill, but essentially you could bought 1 rank by level and your ranks were added to the crits you delivered (0-1-1-0.5-0). That could do for a power-up.

[mocking bird]

I don't feel fighters need any boost in power. I have played a fighter for several years bringing him up to the 31st level and I never felt frustrated when compared with my fellow mage. One think I like particularly was the possibility for the fighter to develop into many areas of skills (leadership, outdoor... and even some magics).

But then he really isn't a fighter anymore then is he?  It isn't so much the lack of ability to diversify skills playing a non it is that I know ahead of time that my main skills will cap around 15th level while spell casting classes still progress in their areas of expertiese.

[Joshua24601]

I give 100DP per level, too and completely agree with you on that.

I'm not a fan of the flat DP per level system.  DP giving attributes tend to be less useful (as far as skill bonuses) especially in combat.  I'm under the impression that the designers intended non development stats to be less useful in day to day life, as a trade off for getting more skill points.

[yammahoper]

The problem with basing DP's on stats is it penalizes the desire to roleplay.

If you wish to play a forgetful mage with a 27 Me, you get a stat penalty and less DP.  This does not represent real life either since a person with poor memory would learn to take advantage of other abilities to compensate, thus not losing out in overall available DP.  Since all Me based skills will already suffer from a low stat mod, there is no reason to punish the player twice.

Sd, Ag and Co are three stats my players will often want to take lower than average for many reasons.  Set DP lets them without being limited beyond the low stat mod.

lynn 

[Arioch]

DP giving attributes tend to be less useful (as far as skill bonuses) especially in combat.

I don't agree on that: there are a lot of skills (expecially combat oriented ones) influenced by Agility, which is a DP stat; Constitution is important for both Body Development and some RRs; Self Discipline is used for many skill catgories, and so are Memory and Reasoning.
IMHO flat DP have many pros: all characters receive the same amount of DPs each level, PCs can be builded around the concept you want without being penalized too much for your choices, you have more DPs to buy "secondary" skills which fit your character...

[vroomfogle]

I don't agree on that: there are a lot of skills (expecially combat oriented ones) influenced by Agility, which is a DP stat; Constitution is important for both Body Development and some RRs; Self Discipline is used for many skill catgories, and so are Memory and Reasoning.

That is true with Agility especially.   I was working on a House Rule that based stat gain on which skills you took ranks in (and the corresponding stats).  I never got it to work properly because Agility it turns out is an uber stat that is by far the most oft-used stat...used more then 70 times* in the RMSS skills whereas some stats, like Quickness and Constitution are used less then 5.   Most of the other stats are somewhere around 20 or 30.

*I counted a stat each time it was used in a skill, and used the optional 3rd stat.  So a skill that is Re/Me/Me would count Me twice.

If it weren't for Agility then the other stats are much more close to being equal, in terms of their distribution across skills other then Co and Qu but you could argue they are just as important because of their use in Hits and DB.

Agility being a Development Stat makes it even worse, especially for min-maxing it's a no-brainer.


I give 100 DP a level too, with RMSS but since I've been paring down my skill set considerably so will expect to fall more in the range of 50-60.

[Fidoric]

If you wish to play a forgetful mage with a 27 Me, you get a stat penalty and less DP.

You may want to create a forgetful mage by giving him a malus to his memory stat rather than lessening his stat score. This way you get a low bonus but still get your DPs.

[yammahoper]

You may want to create a forgetful mage by giving him a malus to his memory stat rather than lessening his stat score. This way you get a low bonus but still get your DPs.

What if we do not use talents and flaws, nor wish too?

lynn

[RandalThor]

How about the ability to by as many ranks in new skill as the average of your Me/Sd mod?

lynn

For mine, I would go with the progression it has in the order it has it.

A skill with a 2/5 would come out like this if they get to buy 7 ranks:
2/5/2/5/2/5/2. For a total of 32 pts. You don't have to change the numbers at all.

[RandalThor]

Ooops. Sorry, quoted the wrong person. This is what I meant to quote:

And what costs do you propose ? If a skill costs 2/5 and I want to buy 5 ranks, how much do I pay ?
Perhaps it would be easier if all skills have a single cost, like in Harp.

Then follow with the above statement.

As for what I did quote: You could just as easily add your Re, Me, & SD stat bonuses together to get a percentage of your DPs or just the actual number of DPs they can spend on the increase. The costs would limit the number of skill ranks, so that something that that particular profession is good at (i.e. low cost) they would be able to purchase more ranks in, in effect learning it faster.

Imagine you are a 20th level fighter who has just found the +30 Longsword of Ultimate Demon-bane. Dang it! You only have ranks in broadsword and dagger for one-handed edged. Now you can get more than 2 ranks a level so that the sword will be useful, faster. It can be role-played as s/he is intensely training with the weapon; sweaty and all focusy and stuff.

[Fornitus]

 I dont think a 4th lvl fighter gets a kill crit as easy as a 30th lvl fighter, thus the trade of +1 to crit/ skill rank not used. Seams to work good.

 For what the next cost would be we just figgure the next increment....
         1/2  becomes  1/2/4/8/10/20/ect..     double previous
         3/6  becomes  3/6/12/24/ect..           
         3/9  becomes  3/9/27/ect...               triple previous
         2/5  becomes  2/5/12/30/ect...          double plus 1/2 previous

 Works good and shows the difficulity of getting many ranks in a single LVL on something that isint x/*