Author Topic: Races in Cyradon  (Read 4682 times)

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Offline Fidoric

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Races in Cyradon
« on: December 26, 2007, 09:07:51 AM »
I was just wondering : for how long did the Dwarves exist on Cyradon ?
According to the timeline p19, the Cyrads appeared circa 11000 AE, followed by the Elves c15500 AE. Humans (descendant of the not-yet-extinct Cyrads), Gryphons, Gryx and Aoifar did appear about 21250 AE.
BTW, that seems to disqualify the Gryphons as the eldest race.
Besides, the Nagah and thus, after some evolution, the Nagazi, have been created during the First Age, making them even older than the Mithrans. Or are the Nagazi considered, as a race, to have separated from the Nagah stock only after their discovey of Evefalim or something like that, making them relative newcomers ?
Two races are, as far as I can tell, (deliberately ?) left without clear indication.
First, the dwarves, though some details may make them contemporaries of the Mithrans (same Gods...). In the timeline, when the Cyrads begin creating the Royal Roads (c 18735 AE), many of the portals are located in Dwarven outpost. So the Dwarves are already around and thriving back then (outposts indicates that larger settlements exist at that time).
Second, the Gnomes. Their legends make them spirits who have witnessed the coming of the Dragons themselves and the reign of the Mithrans, but their first appearance in the timeline is in 27000 AE... Are they so unobtrusive as to never have been seen before ? Or are their claims true ?

Is there anyone willing to explain some things to me ? Or is there some secrets around, not to be revealed until a future Gazeteer ?
 
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Offline janpmueller

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2007, 11:47:56 AM »
You might want to check out an old post from the forums:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=4346.msg59319#msg59319

I hope that helps!
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Offline Fidoric

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2007, 03:04:25 PM »
The diagram is really OK but I can't agree with the Dwarves appearing more or less as the Humans do. The Dwarves are definitively there since 18735 at the very least, that is 2500 earlier.
As for the Rhona, have you found any evidence of their relatively late appearance ? What action is first attributed to them ? Can't say I have found any clue in Cyradon.
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Offline munchy

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2007, 03:12:53 PM »
I like the diagram although I think it is not that important to have the specific dates in it as it on the one hand gives the general idea - although if the dwarves were there earlier than the humans as it is customary since Tolkien that should be corrected - about the different races. The chart is, on the other hand, too little detailed to be read in very clear detail I think. Which is not bad as I pointed out before - general impression is what I was looking for and what I am content with in this matter.
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2007, 05:03:12 PM »
The Mablung and the Rhona are specifically mentioned in the earlier histories because they just were not heavily involved.

If you really wanted to classify them, they would (along with the mysterious race mentioned in Western Jungle description) need to have a single ancestor race that was an offshoot of Saena and Mithran mixing. This offshoot, would have then developed into the three races (Dwarves, Gnomes, & the races of the Western Jungles), with each then splitting slightly into their own variants (i.e. Mablung & Standard HARP Dwarf; Rhona Gnome and Standard Gnome -- all of which are possible player races for HARP).


The Gryx would be from another Saena and Mithran mixing, while the Gryphons and Aoifer would have both evolved from the Saena alone, just as the Cyrads and Elves evolved from the  Mithrans (and the Cyrads later evolved/devolved into humans, and the elves broke into several different elven races).

At least that is my viewpoint.....

Offline munchy

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2007, 05:10:48 PM »
Viewpoints sounds interesting. Questions would probably expect an official answer, I guess.
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2007, 07:06:30 PM »
Ahhh... but what if we don't want to be official....  ;D

More seriously.......

The appearance of Dwarves and Gnomes in the timeline is done only where we thought it important to note. The timeline is by no means a complete and full history of the entire world. Just because they are not mentioned earlier, that does not mean that they were not present. It only means that their presence was not yet important to the history leading up to the current situation in Belynar.

For example, the core book barely touches on why the Gryx left their homeland, or about their totem poles. Because those events were less important than the fact that they were nomadic, and that they put up the totem poles. The Cyradon Gazetteer provides some more detail....

Plus, I have also stated before, we specifically left some things vague so GMs could customize as they see fit.

The core Cyradon book is the starting point. Each GM makes the world his own from that point as he fills in details that are missing. If those details do not match what is released in later products? No problem, the GM's version is canon for HIS game. That is ICE's viewpoint on that.

Now, if somebody wants to do up a specific set of questions, it is possible that I might write another Gazetteer filled with official answers.  ;D That is basically how the first Gazetteer came about.

But, until such a point in time, the only thing that I will say regarding things that are not published is "my viewpoint".

Offline munchy

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2007, 03:21:29 AM »
Excellent. That's how most GMs will probably treat the gaming worlds anyway. I doubt that even Shadow World with it many information is used as it is in the books. Everyone changes his campaign world to what he wants and needs it to be and that's what GMing is about, isn't it.
I can understand, however, that too little information can at times be a bit annoying if you wanted to rely on something from the books and then it just isn't in there.

So, will think about questions to ask ... liked the last Gazetteer even though it answered questions I never had when I read the core source book. ;D
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Offline Fidoric

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2007, 04:04:13 AM »
Your answer pleases me Rasyr. The GM has the final word on everything iin his game. I was just asking questions about races in Cyradon out of intellectual curiosity. Besides, I think that in most fantasy games, every races are considered as having always existed and questions about who was there the first are certainly only relevant for religious discussions or racial pride.

However, if asking question may lead you to write anorther Gazeteer, I am immediately going to think about some more. The first opus was excellent !  ;)
Now there's a plan : we go there, we blast him, we come back...
Fighters forever !
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Offline SamwiseSeven

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 01:14:43 PM »
I like that they left the door open for more races in the setting.  I believe somewhere in the Cyradon book, it mentions a new race of beings (it's been awhile since I read it).

I sent in an article for the Guild Companion in March that I think would fit this new race in the setting rather well.  The reptilian-like race is called the Zhyll.
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Races in Cyradon
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 03:02:48 PM »
Actually, there are several races that are barely mentioned.

There is the race from the western jungles of Anias -- some of them could have traveled with the Dwarves.

There is also the mysterious race from the original homelands of the Gryx.

There is also the mysterious race who attacked the one Nagaral city.

Not to mention, the Schirae who have completed the transformation (red skinned winged elves who drink blood, yet are not vampires in the classical sense)

And then there are the super Nagah being created in the western jungles of Cyradon....

Not to mention the possibility of other races among the shatterings - the Aoifer came from one such island. There are no telling how many other possible races might be around....

The setting itself is setup to allow for any number of different races to be there.