Topic: Solutions to Absolution

[Arioch]

In the near future my party will have to deal with a bunch of evil demon worshipping clerics/sorcerers. A certain number of their foes will have access to the infamous Absolution spell and, since they have no love for the party, they surely make use of it, if they can.
I don't care if one or more of them get zapped during the adventure, failing his/her RR and being knocked out by the spell (they know who they're going to fight and they have full time to prepare themselves).
The probelm is that they have no access to Lifegiving or similar effects (and they have no connection with any sort of church or religious organization who could do it for them), so after the adventure the only way to have "absoluted" comrades back in the party would be waiting X weeks until their souls come back.
This sounds a bit boring to me, and I'm thinking to introduce alternative ways that they could use to revive their friends. Something like a couple of mini-quests to keep them busy instead of having them sitting in a inn for a month or two, waiting for their friends to wake up.
For example they could use a very rare soul-restoring herb, which grows in a dangerous area. Finding the herb would be the quest, but this would involve only the "active" characters, while the "absoluted" ones will have to do nothing for the whole time.
Another solution could be some sort of "astral-travel", where the PCs use a ritual to go to the realm of the deads to rescue their friends... this would involve both living and temporary dead characters, so probably it's better...

Any other idea?

Thanks!

[David Johansen]

What this calls for is a couple rings of astral anchoring which prevent absolution and maybe some that are more like rings of astral vengance in which their soul stays behind to torment and trouble the fool who dared sunder them.

[Marc R]

How about, if the effect is caused by evil channeling, you need to get them back onto holy ground which "breaks the spell."

Something akin to:

"Open up padre, we gotta lay my friend here on your alter to wake him up!"

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The text for the spell "Absolution" says that the soul may only be restored early through Lifegiving. it doesn't say that the Lifegiving has to be from a spell.

To me, this suggests a number of alternate possibilities. For example, there are the herbs listed on page 114 of the RMC Character Law (or you could make up herbs of your own that do this as well).

You could rule that taking a Lifekeeping herb reduces the duration to days or even hours instead of weeks, if it is taken within a certain time frame before, or even have it reduce the time frame afterwards as well.

You could transport the victims to a magical spring which is rumored to be able to bring back the dead (i.e. it will work as lifegiving so long as the body still lives or is undamaged - it can awaken characters from comas as well).

While they may not have any church affiliations, there is always the "generous donation" to get a church to help out. And if the PCs end up broke......  oopsey... more reason for them to go adventuring again.

Or perhaps they get aided in return for the party agreeing to be geased to complete a given task.

Oodles and oodles of ideas abound....

[mocking bird]

So summoing a demon to animate the empty vessel is probably out of the question...

Are they taking on this evil cult pro bono?  What if one of the prequel quests involves indirectly helping a competing temple that may offer aid for the final assault?

One thing we did once  was allow early return via spell mastery/ritual of the absolution spell (had a channeler in the party) to put the soul back.  However this did set up some long term precedents that we weren't too comfortable with so we discontinued it.

But the lifekeeping option seems more plausible.  Absolution kicks the soul out, likekeeping keeps it around.  Mechanically you could handle it similar to a dispel since you do have contrairy effects and lifekeeping time could be subtracted from absolved time perhaps to a minimum or at least some recovery dime as the character's soul just did some extra-planar bunjee jumping.

[Marc R]

If I'm not mistaken, your interp actually works via the cancel rule.

The caster can just cancel it at will, since it's not a permanent effect. . .hmm.

The note in SL does say that for channeling spells, there may be complications if the diety doesn't want the spell cancelled.

[mocking bird]

But then if you kill the caster the spell might end.

It depends on if absolution kicks out the soul who then takes a while to get back or if it is actually keeping the soul out as in a continual effect.  If the spell description states that only lifegiving can bring back the soul early it seems kind of like it poisons the body preventing sour reunification so the spell would no longer be active but the effects would linger.  Kind of like magical stunning where you can't dispel the stun rounds....or can you?  Using lifekeeping to shorten the time isn't so much as cancelling the spell as overriding it.

The note in SL does say that for channeling spells, there may be complications if the diety doesn't want the spell cancelled.

Then whose god is bigger - the absolver or reunifier?  Which brings up the sticky issue about channeling magic in general which is best to leave alone.

Thinking about this absolution, as in remission of sins, does seem an odd choice of name for a spell that rips the soul from your body.

[David Johansen]

Oh, also, Cancel Channeling or Channelling shield of an appropriate level is an effective protective measure.  Of course, the only 100% effective defense against the dangers of Absolution is Abstainence!

[Marc R]

Spells won't end when caster is killed, caster can choose to cancel.

The channeling issue comes up with the party capturing the priest. "Bring our friend back"

He tries, and fails. . . if his god isn't interested in letting the spell cancel. . .Where an essence or mentalism user could just cancel, the channeler can cancel unless the diety doesn't want the spell to cancel.

I dunno. I always read that spell as "You go where you would end up if you died right now."

So, depending on the world, and the afterlife set up. . .you go there, experience it for a given set of time, then pop back to your body. . .

Some evil folks might decide they don't want to go back to hell after a visit and change their ways.

The word "Absolution" is kind of odd though. . .even more so that Ordainers can "Ordain" which is the name for their absolution ability.

[David Johansen]

I ment the spell Cancel Channelling which makes an incoming spell make an RR vs the caster's level or be cancelled.  An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of dynamite.

[yammahoper]

He tries, and fails. . . if his god isn't interested in letting the spell cancel. . .Where an essence or mentalism user could just cancel, the channeler can cancel unless the diety doesn't want the spell to cancel.

lmao

I can see it now, the rule will read as every Munchkins dream come true.  Chapter 4, under "The Nature of Clerical Magic".

"...all cleric spells resist at a level equal to their respective diety.  Optionally, all resistance levels may be halved from attacks originating from the dieties diametrically oppossed force..."

 

Every spell user would want to be a cleric.

lynn

[Marc R]

I think I may have been unclear. I refer to the notes in SL, RMC SL page 84, I think this is the same on the FRP side:

CANCELING A SPELL
The caster of a spell can, at any time, cancel that spell; the caster must be within the spell?s original range limit or within ?sensing? range of the spell?s current effects. The caster cannot cancel the actual physical or mental results of a spell (e.g., fire, wounds, created materials, etc.). Cancellation takes 1 round of concentration. Channeling spells may also require the permission or acquiescence of the caster?s deity to cancel the effect.)

So if a nasty magician or mentalist does something long lasting to a party member, you can try the "Take it off or we start cutting off your toes" routine. . . .with an evil cleric absolution. . . .even if the cleric agrees to try, it might not work, if their diety decides to not let them cancel the effect.

Not referring to an external cancel at all.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

As far as I am concerned, the deity has no say in it.

They way I view it is that the deity provides the power, the deity does NOT cast the spells. The spells are learned and cast by the character. It is the only way in which channeling can work properly (without a lot of hand-waving or trying to explain why a Cleric has to purchase/learn his spells) in RM.

As for a soul returning from an Absolution, that is up to the caster (canceling the spell or not), and the soul (which always gets the right to refuse lifegiving efforts). The deity is not part of the effort in any way.

[Marc R]

I think that's the reason for that all important "may" in the cancel rule quoted above. Never tie the GMs hands either way.

Souls always return from Absolution, there's not really a choice involved, unless you kill the body. (Dark absolution destroys the soul completely, nasty spell.)

I guess if you tried to lifegive the body to bring the soul back early, it would end up resolving normally, per what you said above. . .but at the end of the duration the soul snaps back into the body, unless the GM intervenes somehow.

[Arioch]

So summoing a demon to animate the empty vessel is probably out of the question...

Are they taking on this evil cult pro bono?  What if one of the prequel quests involves indirectly helping a competing temple that may offer aid for the final assault?

Actually not  ...summoning a demon to do the trick could be an idea since one of the party members is a demonologist. But he's reluctant to use demons too much, because in my world close contact with demons bring corruption points. So even if they come up with a similar idea they'll probably discard it because of the corruption.
They are not taking on the cultists just because they're an evil cult, but because they're allied with their enemies and have something that the PCs want... knowing that these clerics are evil only makes the PCs feel justified a bit for killing them all. 

But the lifekeeping option seems more plausible.  Absolution kicks the soul out, likekeeping keeps it around.

But lifekeeping clearly states that the soul must still be in the body for the spell to work. So they'll have to cast it on them before confronting the cult, as a sort of "Absolution shield"...

[Arioch]

The text for the spell "Absolution" says that the soul may only be restored early through Lifegiving. it doesn't say that the Lifegiving has to be from a spell.

To me, this suggests a number of alternate possibilities. For example, there are the herbs listed on page 114 of the RMC Character Law (or you could make up herbs of your own that do this as well).

Yes, I think I'll go for something like that: a magical herb or a special holy place, something that is not too hard to obtain, but neither too easy...

But all this talking about cancelling spells make me think that the solution is actually a lot easier! Absolution is a Force spell, and has a duration (1week/10 fail), so it  could be simply dispelled (with a Dispel Channeling), or not? 

[Setorn]

In one game, the PC recoved a lost religious relic in the form of an urn with a balm inside.  The balm was unending but only returned to the shrine from which it originated.  The urn held all of the balm when lost and aided the players with a very deadly story, but was gone shortly.  They eventually returned the urn and were treated as out casts for not returning it earlier, but they were alive.  The Balms heal abilities was nothing but miraculous. 

[Marc R]

yep, the "Easy" answer is to drop a dispell on it.

[mocking bird]

But lifekeeping clearly states that the soul must still be in the body for the spell to work. So they'll have to cast it on them before confronting the cult, as a sort of "Absolution shield"...

That is an interesting variant on it.  Pehaps a little research/spell mastery might be required but it does seem to be along the same lines as elemental shields and the like.

Would a dispel work?  Is absolution considiered a continuous spell for its duration or is it boom - done with risidual effects?  I would say not as we also don't allow dispelling of stun, and similar, spells that have durations dependant on resistance rolls.

This reminds me of an instance where a character had a soulstone (kingdom Amulets from Shadow World have a similar effect and act as soul keeping gems), had literally given part of his sould to an evil god (dark pact) and then had absolution cast upon him.  We used opposing RR's to see who won (the god wasn't giving up his part no matter what) and the soulstone did nullifying the absolution but he was out for several rounds as his soul got sucked out, put into the stone then was put back from the stone.  Perhaps something similar, but less powerful obviously, or cancel channeling items?

[Marc R]

stuns are "damage". . .which is considered a permenant effect. . .the stun itself wears off, but all damage is considered permenant, and can be fixed, but not cancelled. Same with side effects like if your wall of fire sets the building on fire, cancelling the wall of fire does not put the fire out.

OTOH a spell like "Confusion" or "Golden Slumbers" that puts you into an altered state for a given duration seem to fall under the cancel vs "F" spell effects rules.

Absolution has a duration, the details are very different, but the resolution is essentially the same as "Golden Slumbers". . .I cast, your soul is shoved off for a while, then returns.

Opinion: I'd say the "snap back" to the body represents the fact that the soul belongs in the body, it's anchored there and retains a connection. The Absolution pulls the soul out and sends it off, and prevents it from coming back. I'd rule as GM that a sucessful cancel channeling eliminates that block or prevention of the soul resuming it's normal state, so the soul pops back.