Topic: removing stat based manuevers

[rdanhenry]

If I were doing skill versus skill for social skills, I'd have the "target" defend with the same social skill being used to try to influence him. When you know all the moves yourself, you can more easily spot when you are being played. Although in some cases, the skill contest would be between two individuals who are both active, in order to see which sways the audience. A public speaking contest of skills to see which speaker wins over the crowd, a test of diplomacy to see which ambassador sways the King of Gildenvesse to support his nation in their dispute, or a seduction contest between two adventurers to see who woos the willing, winsome barmaid's company would all be skill-against-skill even if one didn't adopt that as one's standard model.

[Langthorne]

I like that idea. I think it would work better for some skills more than others. Or should I say some situations more than others.

I'm not completely sure that good liars are also good at spotting a lie, good interrogators good at resisting interrogation etc, but it is a good starting point.

Diplomacy is a great example.

Maybe I'd use Detect Lie Vs Duping

[Greyaxe]

In the case of RR verses influence skills I dont use any at all. If successfull the character or NPC influences the target in the manner specified.  I have the characters use Lie Detection to see if they are being lied to, success or fail.  If someone is lying you generally dont respond to them well, if they are telling the truth you tend to respond favorably unless there is a reason not to ( like leaked information etc).  I award role playing bonuses for people who play being influenced by factors in the game well.  If they dont and use player knowlage to influence a character decision they are penalized and i tell them so.  Its a role playing game of pretend, if you dont play along you ruin the fun.  Game mechanics cant replace a good player.

[Langthorne]

Roleplaying definitely plays a big part in dealing with influence skills, but I am interested in the 'game mechanics' side of things.

The main question is: When dealing with unwilling targets of influence maneuvers, how do you reflect, in game terms, the fact that different characters have different levels of resistance (remembering that a player and their character often have different skills and abilities)?

[Greyaxe]

I increase the level of difficulty to make a successful influence skill.
Angry, distracted, etc = hard
steadfast against the idea = very hard
Violenty against the idea = sheer folly
In the midst of combat  = Absurd

[Langthorne]

I increase the level of difficulty to make a successful influence skill.
Angry, distracted, etc = hard
steadfast against the idea = very hard
Violenty against the idea = sheer folly
In the midst of combat  = Absurd

OK, that covers differing circumstances nicely. 

What about different characters?  (one character is stubborn, another is easily led etc) Do you modify the roll using SD or some other stat?

As a general rule, I find that players like to have an opportunity to roll their resistance, in a similar way to say spell resistance or poison resistance. I guess your players are not too fussed when it comes to influence.

(I'm unsure of the best way forward at this stage - hence all the questions)

[Arioch]

As a general rule, I find that players like to have an opportunity to roll their resistance, in a similar way to say spell resistance or poison resistance. I guess your players are not too fussed when it comes to influence.

True, so while for NPCs I generally just increase maneuver difficulty, I tend to give PCs a chance of resistance, either by having them make an awareness roll or using another appropriate skill. I would really like to have a simple and clear method for handling this in the rules, I think this is an area in which RM is very lacking... and probably the whole skill vs skill thing could be need some fixing.
I also remember that the "influence" question was arised a lot of times in the past, but I don't recall if someone came up with a satisifng answer.
Maybe you'll get more response if you post the question in the general RM area...

[Skynet]

Personally, I don't dislike the idea of stat based rolls, but I don't like the way the system presents them (3 x Stat bonus). Some time ago, I started a thread on the subject. My conclusion was this :

Another way to get past this problem could be to use the moving maneuver chart and using the result of the roll to generate a final % chance. So our warrior rolls 56, adds his +30 and compares his 86 to the HARD column of the table : 60% Not bad at all. With the same roll, the hobbit would have a 20% chance. Hard. He can still make it, but it'll take a bit of luck to make that roll.

Read the thread for context, but you get the idea.

A more simple way to do it would be to give a +50 bonus to every stat roll. That way, a normal character (0 stat bonus) performing a medium stat roll you have a 50/50 chance of succeeding.

But I like the idea of using skill categories. Nice.